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clyde villegas
24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 12:04:15 am

My final dvd is very jittery. I may have a wrong understanding of 24p. When I shoot with a DVX100B in 24p, what is the actual frame rate of the recording in the tape, is it 24fps or still 29.97 with a 24fps cadence?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 2:48:03 pm

[clyde villegas] "is it 24fps or still 29.97 with a 24fps cadence?"

It's 29.97. ALL standard-definition NTSC cameras MUST record 29.97 interlaced frames/sec.

As the camera shoots at the NTSC film frame rate of 23.976 frames/sec, the camera's electronics adds additional fields to certain frames to spread those 23.976 frames across 29.97 frames. This process is known as pulldown.

The DVX can do two kinds of pulldown: 24p and 24pa. 24p is the normal 3:2 pulldown, which has been used to show movies on TV ever since they started showing movies on TV. 24pa uses a different pulldown cadence, 2:3:3:2, which makes it easier for computers to remove pulldown; the actual motion you see in the type of pulldown looks God-awful, so you shoot 24pa ONLY when you want to create 23.976 footage for editing.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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clyde villegas
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 11:01:31 pm

If it's recorded at 29.97, can I use the NTSC 29.97 preset timeline in Premiere instead of the 24p preset? Does it matter if I download using the dvx100b or any cheap NTSC miniDV camcorder attached to my PC?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 11:08:12 pm

[clyde villegas] "If it's recorded at 29.97, can I use the NTSC 29.97 preset timeline in Premiere instead of the 24p preset?"

Not if you want to use After Effects! You'll have to remove pulldown.





[clyde villegas] "Does it matter if I download using the dvx100b or any cheap NTSC miniDV camcorder attached to my PC? "

It shouldn't. You can always hook up the cheapie and run a test, y'know...

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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clyde villegas
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 11:24:16 pm

Thanks Dave, that's very helpful!

Here' what I'm trying to do: edit in Premiere, Color in After Effects, and burn the DVD in Encore.

After editing in Premiere and it's now time to export it (as an intermediate file to be color graded in AE), I'll export it as Uncompressed Microsoft AVI. In the basic settings, what frame rate should I choose: 23.976 or 24.97?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 11:28:28 pm

As long as you don't -- I repeat, as long as you you DO NOT -- use AE for any kind motion graphics whatsoever, you can work at 29.97.

Personally, I would not. I would remove the pulldown from the footage and work at 23.976.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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clyde villegas
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 2, 2010 at 11:33:36 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "... I would remove the pulldown from the footage and work at 23.976"

How do you do that?


ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 3, 2010 at 2:42:11 pm

Sorry, I only know how to do it in Final Cut Pro.

You'll want to ask how it's done in Premiere on the Premiere forum. Who knows? That 24p edit timeline preset may work just fine for removing the pulldown, it may be a seamless transfer into After Effects, but I plain 'n simple do not know enough about Premiere to give a definitive answer.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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clyde villegas
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 3, 2010 at 9:58:00 pm

I see.

When I played with the counter, the digits return to zero (when on the 24p preset timeline) when it reaches 23. So I guess it automatically removed the pulldown. Now, the frame rate is actually 24 frames in a minute. What do you think?

Do you think this is what caused the jittery movements: I worked on a timeline at 24 frames per second (24p preset), I the exported uncompressed using "29.97" and used the footage in after effects, then I exported to encore with the mpeg2-dvd preset (which is also 29.97)

I think what I should have done is edit in 24p, export intermediate video file to AE (for color grading) using 24fps settings (23.976), then when in AE export again to encore with mpeg2-dvd at 29.97.

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 3, 2010 at 10:59:22 pm

I reiterate: I do not know how Premiere handles 24p footage. I'm a Final Cut pro guy. You have to ask these questions on the Premiere forum to get a straight answer\.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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clyde villegas
Re: 24p recording
on Jun 3, 2010 at 11:04:35 pm

Sorry Dave... I must be very sleepy. I'll copy-paste that to the Premiere forum. Thanks!

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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