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Reggie Smiley
Focus 24p
on Sep 29, 2009 at 4:12:15 am

I've been shooting in 24p lately and I have noticed that when I zoom all the way in, the focus is off slightly. The camera will adjust eventually but it takes way to long. I have the shutter speed set to 1/500 cause I'm shooting football games. I have switched back to normal mode and this doesn't happen. Is this normal or do I need repair.


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Noah Kadner
Re: Focus 24p
on Sep 29, 2009 at 1:03:57 pm

1/500 is really high for anything- 1/100 is better.

Noah

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Dave LaRonde
Re: Focus 24p
on Sep 29, 2009 at 9:44:49 pm

[Reggie Smiley] "...I've been shooting in 24p lately... I have the shutter speed set to 1/500 cause I'm shooting football games."

I know there are good reasons for shooting 24p, but it seems like you're not doing yourself any favors with a film frame rate an a high shutter speed. If you're shooting athletics, you might be a lot better off simply shooting plain ol' 29.97 video.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Reggie Smiley
Re: Focus 24p
on Oct 1, 2009 at 2:20:23 am

Honestly, I don't what I'm doing. I'm figuring this out by trial and error. I will say, 24p mode looks better when the DVD is complete.

I'm gonna assume you guys don't know the answer to my question though.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Focus 24p
on Oct 1, 2009 at 1:38:30 pm

If the camera won't focus up when totally zoomed in, it could be that the backfocus is off, which can happen from sudden jolts and such. And with cameras of that size, they ALWAYS need to fix it at a factory-approved repair facility.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Justin Parker
Re: Focus 24p
on Oct 1, 2009 at 9:36:18 pm

I've also noticed focus is slow in 24p when zoomed it tight with my DVX100a.

But, I also agree that 1/500th is too fast for most situations.


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Michael Hawk
Re: Focus 24p - more about 24p and sports photography
on Oct 2, 2009 at 6:44:59 pm

I have had a similar experience in low light, shooting auto shutter speed (not 1/500). Backing off the zoom a bit solves the problem. Someday I will figure out if this is a camera or operator problem. :)

As for 24p, it's my (limited) understanding that a lower frame rate will lead to blurring in moving objects, like a thrown football.

Here's some online research, if you find it useful. I'm still educating myself about these things.

See this video for a comparison of 60 and 24 fps (24MB, avi).

http://kimpix.net/2006/12/03/60fps-vs-24fps/

You'll see a ball moving, first in 24fps, and then in 60fps. Press pause while the balls go left and right. The 24fps ball will blur, and the 60fps ball won't. Really, only the very beginning matters as the maker messes up his demonstration in the second top-bottom comparison.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

"The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.

If you could see your moving hand very clear and crisp, then your eye needed to make more snapshots of it to make it look fluid. If you had a movie with 50 very sharp and crisp images per second, your eye would make out lots of details from time to time and you had the feeling, that the movie is stuttering."


See this link (0.52MB):

http://www.100fps.com/nomotionblur.avi

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p#Disadvantages_of_24p

In general, 24 frames-per-second video has more trouble with fast motion than other, higher frame rates, sometimes showing a "strobe" or "choppy" motion, just like 24 frame/s film will if shot as if it's video, without careful panning, zooming, and slower camera motion. It is therefore not well-suited for programming requiring spontaneous action or "reality" camerawork. 24p can also hurt the credibility of newscasts by making news footage look too much like staged movie clips – though many newscasts do incorporate 24p footage[citation needed].


24fps and the DVX100:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/app_dv_24qaboutdv1.asp

24 Questions about DV 24 Frame Progressive

1. When is 24p the right format for me?

When you wish to capture a sequence of images with a "cinematic" look. For example, independent film production, film school training, and additional video sequences to be inter cut with existing film archives. The AG-DVX100 can also be applied as a "B Roll" camera on set, complementing the primary HD video camera or 35mm film camera. It is also a very economical way to shoot multiple camera coverage in 24p.

2. When is 30p the right format for me?

When you require an NTSC formatted output with maximum vertical resolution, no interlace artifacts and easy conversion to still frames. For example videotaping of legal documents or police forensics / evidence recording. The 30p capture mode is also ideal for the production of streaming video or downloadable video or as a component of flash animations, due to its very high efficiency in compressing to a low bit rate, and compatibility with computer graphics software applications.

3. When is 60i the right format for me?

When you require high speed motion capture without film style motion judder. For example sports, local news coverage and general video documentary and industrial training tape production. With suitable post production software, the 60i mode can also be used as substitute for fast frame rate film capture for slow motion sequence applications in independent film production.


24p vs. 30p and Standard Shooting Speeds for Documentaries

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/99/856435

[Original poster]: "While I love the look of 24p, it doesn't do well with lots of movement/action, especially fast movement."

Response: "As for fast motion in regards to 24p, are you referring to fast cuts, or actual movement? Either way, it can still be done, if done correctly. [...] To me 30p is too strobbie, but that's just my opinion. I know people that really like 30p. From what you're describing, 24p is the ticket, but the children's center video does raise some flags... however it's nothing that couldn't be prefossionally dealt with. [...]"

"[OP] "As far as fast motion, I'm mostly talking about actual action, as opposed to camera movement."

Well, it works somewhat hand in hand. [...] You just have to know what you're shooting and if the rate of the subject matter (or camera) will be in the gray area. The only reason I said the children's video might raise a flag is if there was a lot of motion, like sports activities and what not. But again, a seasoned 24p shooter will know how to shoot it. [...]"


Sports guys complaining about what they call the "bizarre 24p effect" on FOX HD sports broadcasts. Sounds mythical:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1163878

Watching the Angels/A's game on FOX in the Los Angeles market. Is anybody else noticing this effect on some of their cameras? Some have the normal video look to it while the main cam and a couple of others appear to have a slight stutter or almost 24p movie effect. [...] I don't know, just kind of weird and distracting for my taste.



Someone wants to know the "best setting for sports in 24p":

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/98820-best-setti...

"It's probably best to avoid 24p for fast action, just use 60i which will give much smoother results. (At least try it out and see what you think.)"

"Yes definitely 60i regular HDV. Not 24P."

"I shoot atleast 1/120 shutter. I personally like the 24f look and motion. Much more filmic. But sports, if you're considering slowmotion, DEFINITELY shoot 60i as you'll get smoother slow mo than 24f."

"You can get okay results in progressive too, it just depends how smooth you want it. [...] I filmed some stuff at my sons sports day last week using 25F. Here's a small sample http://olikai.com/viner-sports (20Mb)"



M. Hawk
HMC-150


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