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Espen Dale Andersen
Vertical detail frequency: THIN
on Dec 6, 2008 at 4:20:17 pm

Hello.

I am in the pre-production process of a documentary shot with DVX100B, and am considering my setting options.

I want to shoot with THIN vertical detail frequency, to better prepare the material for upconversion. However, to avoid problems with CRT-screens, I have heard that I will need to downsample the frequency. Hence my two questions:

- How do I do this (editing with Final Cut Pro).
- Will this lead to a loss in quality compared to shooting with vertical detail frequency MID or THICK?

Thanks.

Espen Dale, Norway.


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Noah Kadner
Re: Vertical detail frequency: THIN
on Dec 6, 2008 at 7:39:58 pm

THIN removes an antialiasing filter and gives you better resolution for film outs, and potentially upconverts. But it also looks kinda odd on its own on an SD monitor. If you are really serious about upconversion have you considered an HD camera?

Noah

Check out My FCP Blog and my new RED Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Espen Dale Andersen
Re: Vertical detail frequency: THIN
on Dec 6, 2008 at 10:18:38 pm

Obviously. However, my producer found that there weren't enough money to bring in HD equipment.

Now, do you have an opinion on what I asked earlier?

Thanks.



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Noah Kadner
Re: Vertical detail frequency: THIN
on Dec 7, 2008 at 12:39:28 am

It'd be difficult to make a recommendation without knowing what your upconversion method and destination is. It would be a smart idea for you to go make some tests with each of the vertical detail settings and see how they look run through your upconversion scheme.

Thin is perfectly easy to monitor directly in FCP and elsewhere. I'm not sure what you mean by downsampling the frequency- I wouldn't know how to do this and it's totally unnecessary. Chances are you won't even notice the difference on your monitor or need to adjust anything anywhere.

Also I think your producer ought to do a bit more research. You can get usable hi-def for under $3K these days- same cost as the DVX. Such as the Panasonic HMC-150 and tons of other AVCHD cameras and HDV cameras that cost even less. So there's really no reason not to at this point. And if you are wanting a quality HD signal there's nothing better than starting with HD acquisition. But anyways... to each their own. :)

-Noah



Check out My FCP Blog and my new RED Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Espen Dale Andersen
Re: Vertical detail frequency: THIN
on Dec 7, 2008 at 9:08:26 pm

Ok, more thoroughly explained, from kino-eye.com

"If you are intending to do a video to film transfer, up-convert to HD, or plan to project at festivals and other venues that are using 720P projectors, use the Thin setting. This provides the full 480 lines of vertical resolution the DVX is capable of and yields a better image when the SD video is up-converted (start with the sharpest and best image you can).

The problem is that most television monitors are interlaced and thus can’t handle the high resolution, so you see what’s called line twitter (as a result of interlacing). The Mid setting brings the vertical detail down to about 400 lines reducing the twitter artifacts on an interlaced display. The Thick setting offers about 360 lines without any artifacts and ideal for material intended for SD broadcast. You will notice the twitter effects of the Thin setting when looking at a scene with lots of fine detail on an interlaced display. Another alternative is to shoot with the Thin setting and process the video in post to lower the resolution if you need material for both up-conversion to HD an SD."

The last sentence is the key to what I am asking. Does anyone now know the best method to do this in Final Cut?

Thanks for your responses!



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Noah Kadner
Re: Vertical detail frequency: THIN
on Dec 9, 2008 at 1:53:23 am

Sure add a blur filter but again I stress- it's really not essential and something you should test for yourself before obsessing about it too much.

-Noah



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