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24pN question

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Michael Lieberman
24pN question
on Aug 16, 2008 at 6:11:14 am

I have pored through many well written posts on the below matter, but still feel like some questions are unanswered.

I shot 24pN footage (used because of 60i footage mixed), several hours worth, and am (hopefully) outputting to DVD in 23.98fps. I edited the 24pN footage on a 29.97 timeline, cadences not pulled down from original capture in FCP 5.14. When I burned a DVD using Compressor of the footage, it was horrendously interlaced, but looks fine on a SD monitor.

I debated using Cinema Tools to convert the footage to 23.98, but the results looked jittery and artifacting was prevalent. After converting to 23.98, do you remove the advanced pulldown in FCP?

For those who shot in 24pN using a DVX100, what was the best process to maintain a more progressive look on, say, an HD display or monitor? There is so much information on the 2:3:3:2 pulldown, that the 2:3:2:3 issues (interlaced images on a monitor, for example) seem unanswered.

I apologize if my questions have been answered previously.


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Noah Kadner
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 18, 2008 at 12:22:50 pm

Well by definition you can't get a progressive final version because you shot 24p with a 3:2 pulldown not easily removable. That's what 24pA is for- which is the format I recommend shooting 99% of the time for its easy pulldown removal. With 29.97 which is basically what you're stuck with there's not much to be done with poor display on a monitor.

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
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John Beck
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 18, 2008 at 2:33:57 pm

Michael,

What is 24PN?



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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 18, 2008 at 2:46:20 pm

Noted Final Cut Pro editor Shane Ross writes:

"24PN means that the footage is 23.98..24fps native. No pulldown to remove...23.98 from the get go. 24P and 24PA are formats that are shot at 29.97 with pulldown that needs to be removed."

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Lieberman
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 18, 2008 at 5:04:45 pm

I understand that I should've shot in 24pA, but I came on board after the initial footage was shot in 24pN, mixed with 60i footage. I'm just trying to find a way to make the most presentable product possible and was hoping that those with 24pN experience could chime in with tips.



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John Beck
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 18, 2008 at 5:28:01 pm

Thanks Dave, I think I need to dig a bit deeper to fully understand the pull down removal and the effects of removal and not removing.





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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 18, 2008 at 5:18:54 pm

[Michael Lieberman] "I shot 24pN footage (used because of 60i footage mixed), several hours worth, and am (hopefully) outputting to DVD in 23.98fps."

If the final delivery is to be an 23.98 DVD, convert the interlaced 29.97 footage to 23.976 (aka 23.98) and edit everything at 23.98. I'm familiar with frame rate conversion plugins for After Effects like Twixtor, Magic Bullet or ReelVision, but not ones for FCP.


Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 19, 2008 at 12:05:31 am

[Michael Lieberman] "For those who shot in 24pN using a DVX100..."

How did I miss that? There's no such thing as 24PN on a DVX 100. There is 24p or Advanced 24p (24pa), both of which are 29.97, and both of which contain pulldown. 24PN is found on certain HD cameras, which the DVX100 certainly is NOT.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Lieberman
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 19, 2008 at 3:49:58 am

My mistake in labeling 24p as 24pN. I added the 'N' because it seems like terminology, right or wrong, has been adopted by some for this format.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 19, 2008 at 3:37:31 pm

[Michael Lieberman] " added the 'N' because it seems like terminology, right or wrong, has been adopted by some for this format. "

Ah. You can now be the beacon of light, championing the use of proper terminology. Film frame rates in NTSC are confusing enough without people muddying the waters by using it improperly.

For example, since 24PN is associated with HD, I thought you may also have had some HD footage in addition to the SD footage. In actuality, your task is easier because it's all SD.

I'd still convert everything to 23.98 and edit at 23.98 to create a 23.98 DVD. As you know, Cinema Tools can remove the pulldown from the DVX 24p footage. The reasonably-priced Nattress Frame rate convertor ought to do the job on the 29.97 footage.

All footage will be at 29.98, you can edit at 29.98, you can make a 29.98 DVD, and life will be good.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Lieberman
Re: 24pN question
on Aug 19, 2008 at 9:30:22 pm

All of the footage I have is SD.

I'll do some more testing in 23.98 and 29.97. I appreciate all of the responses and will pass along the results.



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