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hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P

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Craig Alan
hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 14, 2014 at 11:36:30 am
Last Edited By Craig Alan on Mar 14, 2014 at 4:00:29 pm

plays fine in cam but plays in slow motion in FC and out of sync with audio? 60P plays fine.

1) is this a camera settings problem or a FC settings problem.

2) Is there a way to capture the footage to resolve the problem?

I'm also going to ask at the FCP X technique forum since it might be a FC import settings issue.

Would 30PN or 60 PN be better?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Shane Ross
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:17:39 pm

Are you using FCP 7...or FCP X? In FCP 7, in the Log and Transfer Preferences (accessed by clicking on the sprocket menu in the L&T interface)...uncheck REMOVE PULLDOWN. That will make it play normal.

And if you want 720p at 30fps, then yes, 30PN would be the setting to choose. 720p is a 60fps medium normally, so if you choose 24p or 30p...it'll have the 24fps look, or 30fps look, but still run at 60fps. Only the NATIVE format settings will get you the FPS you want.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Craig Alan
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 18, 2014 at 3:47:45 am

FCP X. (still miss FCP 7 in some ways). The cam was set to 720P 30p not PN. Will PN play back at regular speed but with the motion characteristics of 30p? Is there anyway to get FCP X to play these clips at normal speed?I do have a workaround but it's a pain.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Shane Ross
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 18, 2014 at 3:48:24 am

Sorry, I don't know FCX at all.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Craig Alan
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 18, 2014 at 4:07:16 am

For what its worth pulldown was deselected but did not help. What exactly is the difference between P and PN. I read that PN was the choice for slo mo.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Shane Ross
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 18, 2014 at 5:55:20 pm

[Craig Alan] "What exactly is the difference between P and PN"

If you shoot 1080p24...or 720p24...then your footage will have the LOOK of 24fps, but still run at the native frame rate of the given size. 1080 is a 29.97 format, so your 24p will run at 29.97. 720p runs natively at 60fps, so your 24p will be recorded at 59.97fps.

pN stands for Progressive NATIVE. Meaning that it will shoot at the frame rate specified. 720p24pN will record 720p at 23.98fps. But as there is no 1080pN...you shoot 1080pA24...with Advanced Pulldown removal. it'll record 29.97, but your edit system will remove the extra frames and capture as 23.98.

[Craig Alan] " I read that PN was the choice for slo mo."

Then either you read wrong, or where that was written is wrong. If you want slow motion, then you shoot a higher frame rate than your sequence, and CONFORM your footage to fit. For example, if you are in a 23.98 sequence, and shoot 60fps, you can slow that footage down to match...it'll play back slower than 50%...smoothly.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Craig Alan
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 19, 2014 at 5:58:30 am

Thanks Shane. Very clear post. I do understand the basic concept of under and over cranking but just getting my head around the choices on these P2 cams.

I read the recommendation in Barry Green's book. He said that if you are recording to a P2 card (which we are) and using variable frame rates that you can play back in slo mo right in camera as opposed to doing the conversion in post. Plus he said that in PN mode the camera does not record the extra frames needed to play back at standard frame rates and that therefore it saves space. He generally recommends using PN mode if recording to a P2 card and shooting in variable frame rates. However he says no sound will be recorded using the native mode.

Getting back to my original problem with the 720p 30p playing in slo mo in FCP X: I called panasonic and they couldn't imagine why 30p would play back in slo mo in 720p 30p. The only thing they could think of was if some scene option was chosen that set the camera to film mode. They suggested I do a complete default reset and see if that does the trick. The alternative possibility is that FCP X just doesn't read that choice correctly. The 170 seems to have a more complicated set of choices that the HPX 250.

When I get the time I'll experiment with all these modes and see what the effects are.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Shane Ross
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 19, 2014 at 4:08:39 pm

There is a camera setting for recording slow motion directly into the camera, I didn't think it was PN. Might be. You might set one setting to that, and another setting to 720p60. I forget...been a while since I operated that camera, and I only did that slow-motion thing once, to test it out. I always process my slow motion after...in case I want to use the footage regular speed...and have audio. Recording in slo-mo on the camera doesn't record audio.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Eisen
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 20, 2014 at 1:36:08 am

To clear things up on slomo, on the HPX, you set the camera to film mode use 24pn or 30pn and adjust your frame rate. Lower the frame rate, the faster the footage. Higher the frame rate, the slower the footage. Your footage will always be over/undercranked. As mentioned above, no audio is recorded. I own both the 170 and 250 in addition that, I also own the 500.

Back to the original question, selecting the remove pulldown should have done the trick. in FCP L&T.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


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Craig Alan
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 20, 2014 at 3:41:44 am

Thanks Steve. I follow ... now ... everything you're saying. However, we were not in film mode. We were not in PN mode. And FCP X does not have L&T but does sometimes have a check box for remove pulldown which I tried both ways. In other words, since we were in 30p mode there was no reason it should have played back in slomo. The up side is I now understand better the different modes and will, when I get the chance, play with them. Like Shane, I never really wanted to do these effects in cam but maybe they are smoother than can be done in post without a dedicated program like after effects. The kids would have fun with them but I want to make sure I know all the ins and outs of the menu system so I can quickly undone any problems.


I think there are two possible explanations: FCP X has trouble for what ever reason with 30p from the 170 cam or some scene mode was set that basically switched the cam to film mode and set a higher frame rate. The rep from panasonic couldn't figure it out and suggested a factory reset.

I recovered the footage by playing the footage back out the cam and recorded it to a Ki Pro. Pain in the butt.

What modes are your favorites with the HPX170 and the HPX250 (we have 3 170s and 5 250s).

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Steve Eisen
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 22, 2014 at 12:49:59 am

95% of the time 720p60. For cinema look, 720_30PN.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


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Craig Alan
Re: hpx 170 p2 cam 720p 30P
on Mar 22, 2014 at 6:14:31 pm

Thanks. I will check out 30PN and see if it plays back ok in FCP X. If not I'll stay with 60p.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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