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switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards

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Matthias Kastl
switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 1:56:12 pm

Hi,
i am wondering, we here at our company want to switch from final cut 7 to premiere, but as we have been working with a P2-log and transfer workflow so far, we now search for the same thing in premiere but can't find it. It seems the only way in premiere is to first copy the whole content of the p2-card to the harddrive and then import the data. But thats stupid because we usually just need some parts of the clips not everything. In Final Cut we could simply use the in and out-points to capture only the footage we need, but the same does not seem to work in premiere. If we would have to copy all the time everything to our hard drive it would fill up really quickly. seems to be weird that there is no log and capture option in premiere.

or Is there any other way to use a similar log and transfer (3d party plugins or so) work flow within premiere? would be really thankfull for an answer...

greetings from germany
matthias


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Philip Merten
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 2:45:48 pm

Premiere edits P2 clips natively; no need to log and transfer.To achieve what you want to do, import all your p2 media into a bin (this just takes seconds)and sub clip it. Double click on a clip which opens up in the source monitor, set your in and out points and drag the clip from the monitor back to a new bin.. Much faster than log and transfer any day..


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Matthias Kastl
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 4:06:32 pm

Hi Philip,
thanks a lot for the quick answer, but your solution does not solve my problem. If I follow your instructions the part of the film i selected via the in and out points is still only on the P2 card - not on the actual harddisk. So in this case i still would have to copy all the data on my harddisk, otherwise every clip would be offline as soon as I eject the P2 card. I thought that would be a basic feature in every editing program, I mean do all other people really copy all the data on the hard drive in order to work with the material in premiere? What a incredible waste of diskspace, sounds not at all like a profesional solution to me? or am I wrong?

greetings
matthias


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Steve Eisen
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 9:00:32 pm

Unless you never plan to reuse the P2 card, always always always back up your P2 cards to a Hard drive. Consider the hard drive back up/s your "tape master"

CS4 and 5 give detailed instructions on working with P2 footage.

Premiere works off of the MXF files natively. FCP creates a QuickTime Movie from the MXF files (doubles your hard drive space). That's why you work from your hard drives and not the P2 card.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 9:08:42 pm

Yes, you always have to wait to copy all of the media to the hard drive. But this is for ALL applications. Believe it or not, FCP is the slower and disk hungrier alternative...

Log and Transfer is copying all of the footage to your hard drive, it's just doing it in Final Cut. But even so, this is not how you would actually ingest P2 footage to FCP off the bat. If you want to be reliable for backups, use in other NLE's etc., you need to have the full P2 card structure in its original form. So, one way or another, either P2CMS, ShotPut Pro or a finder copy, is going to take the time to copy your P2 cards to a drive of your choosing.

Only once that is done would you then use Log and Transfer, which will then copy all of your files and convert to quicktime format in the process. So in reality, if you're following all the steps, FCP takes twice as long to get the footage reliably in and ready for edit, and uses twice as much space when copying and converting the files to quicktime as it does not replace your originals but writes a duplicate .mov set.

On the other hand, if you use P2CMS, SPP or Finder to copy the card to any hard drive, you're done and ready to edit. No waiting. In Premiere, all you do is navigate to the files in the Media Browser and Import From Media Browser and organize in whatever bin you want. Even Media Composer uses AMA to import P2 files natively from any source, card or hard drive copy. But there is no copying or transcoding of media.

Hope that helps!
Matt

Panasonic HPX170 P
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 8GB RAM
Matrox MXO2 LE with MAX
Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5, Final Cut Pro Studio 3, Avid Media Composer 3.5.4
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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Matthias Kastl
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 11:17:10 pm

ok...just read your post matthew,

i still do not get it, why do i need to save the whole P2 structure to my hard drive? working with final cut, yes it will convert the files but because i just convert parts of it i still think it will use less space than if i will capture everthing, or? and most important, using log and capture i will only have the parts of the clips on my hard drive, that are actually useful. If i copy everthing, i will alway have search for the parts of the clips that are useful.

And why do I need the original P2 structure on my hard drive. Once I have the file in final cut, that will be the file i will use also for new edits, there is no reason to use the original structure.

so its like this, i log and capture with final cut, i got exactly the parts of my shots i need and these files are the ones i can use for other edits too. with premiere, i always have tons of stuff i will never use again. puhh... i still can't see whats the problem with my argument here, i try to have an open mind, but its difficult for me to see any adavantage in having all the stuff on my hard drive, so that when in visit it again i have to search again for the parts that are actually usefull....

matthias


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Matthias Kastl
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 1, 2011 at 11:05:54 pm

Hi Steve,

thanks for your answer, i really appreciate it...just love this forum, But it seems nobody really understands the exact problem I have. Because of course everything you say makes sense and I always do this, saving everything on my hard drive/raid...Yes, backing up is important, but again, this is not my question.

The problem I have, is that with premiere it seems i have to do a backup of a lot unnecessary crap (to put it in an unpolite way). With final cut, i can just capture the stuff i really need, with premiere it seems i always have to save everything on my hard drive. Maybe an example will help, We are shooting a lot of product videos and from these shots 50 percent is often useless (wrong stuff, shaking camera, whatever). With final cut, i can log and capture just the useful stuff (and this is the only stuff i will and have to backup). The rest on the P2 card i will never need in my life, and with final cut this stuff will never be on my hard drive (as I will never need it).

with premiere i have to save EVERYTHING on my harddrive. Which is stupid, as I just want to have the useful shots on my hard drive.

It's interesting, i have searched the web for a lot of time and nobody seems to complaint about this thing. And i still don't get why. Why is it great to have all the useless stuff on your hard drive? whats the point? Why is there no option, like in final cut, to use in and out points to only save the stuff in your hard drive that you need?

I really would love to have an answer to that question. Maybe most people with premiere are simply not familiar with the log and capture workflow, but i can still not think of one argument why i should save everything on my hard drive, if its just some scenes (or parts of scenes) from my P2 card, that i need.

again, really thanks for all the answers, i'm only in the business since five years so i'm more than eager to learn, but it really do not understand why everybody loves the way premiere handles P2, because it does not make any sense to me as it is not efficient at all...

greetings from europe
matthias


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Shane Ross
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 2, 2011 at 12:41:48 am

Yeah...no one is getting it.

OK...first off...he backs up the entire P2 card structure to his BACKUP drives. Those are where he archives the FULL card. Like we all do with tapeless. The full card is backed up.

NOW...what he wants to do next is import ONLY PORTIONS OF THOSE CARDS...not the whole card. In FCP, you can LOG and TRANSFER and mark IN and OUT points. Import only small sections of the footage from the cards. FCP will then wrap those small sections into QT files. But he only brings in the parts he needs, not the full card.

What he wants to know (and I do too, actually), is how to do that in Premiere. He DOES NOT want to copy the full card to the media drive. That takes up more space than he wants. He only wants to import sections of the footage from the card, just like he does with FCP. How can you do that with Premiere?

This is one drawback to working native...if you don't want to work with your full tapeless card, but only sections (even small parts of LONG takes)...you are stuck.

Unless you guys have a solution.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Matthias Kastl
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 2, 2011 at 7:55:37 am

it's really weird, for me this always seemed to be a basic function every editing program needs to have - a possibility to transfer only the portions of the footage you need from your camera (tape, P2...) on your hard drive. this is for me an important aspect of footage organisation, and to be honest, if this is not possible with premiere, thats a major drawback for me (and I don't get why not for everybody else too). If you film a lot of footage on a daily basis than having to save everything is just crazy regarding disk space...


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Shane Ross
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 2, 2011 at 8:57:45 am

Well, interestingly enough, Avid only imports the full clips as well. Only FCP 6 & 7 allows to import sections of clips. Shame that it is EOL....

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Chris Tompkins
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 2, 2011 at 1:13:28 pm

From the media browser in APP you can double click one of those P2 files and it will open it up and you can then mark in and out points and drag it into your proj.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Matthias Kastl
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 2, 2011 at 2:06:00 pm

again, this was not my question. what i want is to copy only the parts of the shots i like from my P2card to my hard drive (via In and Out points). so that in the end just the stuff i like is actually on my hard drive. Of course, when i save the whole P2 card on my hard drive i can then use in and out points to only import the stuff i want to Premiere. But thats not what i want, i want to select the material before i copy it to my hard drive, like i do in final cut....


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Martin Rose
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 8, 2011 at 3:56:45 am

At least with Panasonic P2CMS you can export to your hard drive just the clips you want. It won't export in to out points however.
Working with native files means a change of workflow that you will just have to get used to.
If you want to keep working the way you have, Cineform Neo might do the job

Martin


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: switch: Final Cut to Premiere - how to log and capture p2 cards
on Dec 10, 2011 at 7:24:53 pm

I have Cineform Neo and yes, it is fantastic. But I don't believe that there is a way to mark Ins and Outs in FirstLight. The pre-editing stuff is really more primary color grading, white balancing, framing. There is a huge quality gain though, for what it's worth.

I was trying to find a work around for this and I was thinking maybe something in On Location? Just kinda pipe it from the absolute front end. But there doesn't seem to be a way of actually making adjustments to P2 footage. It will play back fine but then it says that the clips are locked so it won't add Ins or Outs or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm wrong?

On Location seemed to be the most logical place for this workflow to begin so I gave it a shot. Still worth to continue to investigating as I would like to be able to do this as well. Listening Adobe???

Panasonic HPX170 P
2011 Macbook Pro 17", 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 8GB RAM
Matrox MXO2 LE with MAX
Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5, Final Cut Pro Studio 3, Avid Media Composer 3.5.4
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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