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Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D

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Andrew Rubin
Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 5, 2011 at 2:37:32 am

Information needed as soon as possible for an upcoming shoot.

We decided to switch to HPX170 & Canon 5D from the HMC 150 which we originally used for a preliminary shoot when we were without resources. We filmed at 1080 24p.

We were told 720 24pn on HPX170 is fine, however we are looking for broadcast quality, so why go down to 720 24pn? Why not stay at 1920x1080 1080i 24pA?

What would be the recommended shooting format on the HPX170? And what would also be best to blend HMC150 at 1080 24p with 5D (to be used for transition, beauty shots... not intercutting)? We want editing to go as smoothly as possible.

We know people have done the HPX170 and Canon 5D doc format before but have been unable to locate anyone's specific workflow which would be enormously helpful in modeling our shoot.

Thank you in advance!


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Shane Ross
Re: Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 5, 2011 at 3:25:22 am

[Andrew Rubin] " however we are looking for broadcast quality, so why go down to 720 24pn? "

I have worked on dozens of broadcast shows...for History, Discovery, Nat Geo... with footage shot 720p 24pN. Tons. We simply cross convert when we output to our 1080p 23.98 deliverable. Looks great.

[Andrew Rubin] "Why not stay at 1920x1080 1080i 24pA?"

WHy not? It's a good format...but know that it is 1280x1080 anamorphic. The reason to go 720p24 is more record time on the cards. Nearly double.

[Andrew Rubin] "What would be the recommended shooting format on the HPX170?"

Well, if shooting HD, you have one format only...DVCPRO HD. FRAME RATE? That's determined by your final deliverable, the look you want to have for the show, record times for the cards...all that.

[Andrew Rubin] "And what would also be best to blend HMC150 at 1080 24p with 5D (to be used for transition, beauty shots... not intercutting)?"

Try to avoid intercutting them...they won't look the same. 5D we had for either specific scenes...a look we wanted to achieve. Or for Scenics and b-roll.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andrew Rubin
Re: Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 5, 2011 at 3:49:42 am

Hello Shane - thanks so much for the prompt reply and helpful information.

I hope you don't mind some followup questions:

(1) if you don't have to worry about space on P2 cards, would it be preferable to shoot on 1080?

(2) "What would be the recommended shooting format on the HPX170?"

[Shane Ross] Well, if shooting HD, you have one format only...DVCPRO HD. FRAME RATE? That's determined by your final deliverable, the look you want to have for the show, record times for the cards...all that.

---> apologies, mistyped, I am looking for an answer on frame rate, not format. We want 24 fps/ 23.98 (what we shot for the footage we have thus far). We did tests on the HPX170 at 1080i/24p and 1080i/24pA. The 1080i/24p looked terrible, had the interlaced like horizontal distortion and wound up as 29.97 and we don't want varying frame rates.

The 1080i/24pA I assume went through an advanced pulldown during the transfer from the P2 card reader into final cut from Log & Transfer. It came out without distortion at 23.98. However, we keep getting warned about using the 24pA. So far nobody can give us a clear warning as to "why?".

What's the fuss all about? Why would we not want to use 24pA or would it work fine and nothing to worry about?


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Shane Ross
Re: Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 5, 2011 at 8:09:22 am

[Andrew Rubin] "(1) if you don't have to worry about space on P2 cards, would it be preferable to shoot on 1080?"

Absolutely. More resolution.

[Andrew Rubin] "We want 24 fps/ 23.98 (what we shot for the footage we have thus far). We did tests on the HPX170 at 1080i/24p and 1080i/24pA."

Use 24pA. That is the setting that will allow the removal of pulldown to get you to 23.98 when you ingest. Since that is your goal...use that. Regular 24p is meant to have the film look, but still run at 29.97, since many people have that deliverable, but want the film look.

[Andrew Rubin] "The 1080i/24p looked terrible, had the interlaced like horizontal distortion and wound up as 29.97"

That's interlacing, which doesn't look good on a computer monitor, but looks fine on a broadcast monitor or HDTV. Deliver that format and things will look fine. BUT, you don't want 29.97, you want 23.98...so use 24pA.


[Andrew Rubin] "However, we keep getting warned about using the 24pA. So far nobody can give us a clear warning as to "why?""

I'd like to know too. Because I have never heard warnings about this, except for people using that setting, but wanting 29.97. It is intended for the pulldown to be removed, so if you shoot that format, you must remove it and work at 23.98...which is what you want.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 5, 2011 at 2:17:37 pm

Use 24pA. That is the setting that will allow the removal of pulldown to get you to 23.98 when you ingest.

[Andrew Rubin] "We want 24 fps/ 23.98

Actually the 170 Shots 24pN



Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Shane Ross
Re: Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 5, 2011 at 10:43:09 pm

[Chris Tompkins] "Actually the 170 Shots 24pN"

At 720... For 1080 you need 24pA.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Miodrag Ristic
Re: Documentary Workflow: HPX170 + Canon 5D
on Feb 10, 2011 at 9:23:43 am

<[Andrew Rubin] "Why not stay at 1920x1080 1080i 24pA?"

WHy not? It's a good format...but know that it is 1280x1080 anamorphic. The reason to go 720p24 is more record time on the cards. Nearly double. >

Is this really true, because when I shoot 720p25, I use as much space on a card as when I shoot
1080i. Same when cards are backed up on a hard drive.
Only difference really occurs once I import the footage; subsequent QuickTime files are half the size
compared to those of 1080i footage.

Mio


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