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Mark Welch
New AF 100
on Nov 3, 2010 at 3:34:08 pm

Will Panasonic AF 100 questions be addressed on this forum. I've got a ton already.

Mark


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Noah Kadner
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 3, 2010 at 4:00:37 pm

I'm hoping we'll get a forum specifically for the AF100 or have it folded into perhaps the DVX100/HM150 forum which has less traffic than this forum.

http://forums.creativecow.net/panasonicagdvx100

But at any rate- write the good folks at Cow Central and let them know you want to see the AF100 represented somewhere on the boards:

http://www.creativecow.net/contact_us.php

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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John Fishback
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:07:44 pm

Checkout this thread which has a bunch of links to AF-100 info.

John

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 5, 2010 at 1:18:34 pm

2x crop on 35mm lenses...Ouch.

That being said, I'm still curious to see it!


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Jeff Regan
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 6, 2010 at 1:29:48 am

Why do people compare a digital cinema camera to a stills camera sensor size? When did the Canon 5D MkII become the cinema standard? I guess an Arri 535 or Alexa or F35 or Genesis or RED One aren't cine cameras because they don't shoot full frame 35?

The AF100 frame size is very close to Super 35 or Academy, isn't that what the standard is? Why would anybody go out of their way to shoot a narrative with an impossibly large sensor camera near wide open? I don't know any professional AC who would.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 6, 2010 at 2:11:28 am

[Jeff Regan] "The AF100 frame size is very close to Super 35 or Academy"

You're kidding, right? First of all, who said anything about the 5D? All I am commenting on is that a 2X crop factor is big. an 18mm lens becomes 36. A 50, becomes 100! That adds up quick and can become a real consideration when shooting. If you have to move something 20 feet back to get the fov you want, that might not be possible becuase these things called walls, which can be limiting.

And second, maybe you misunderstood. I'm not counting frame size, I'm counting chip size and accounting for what happens when the light coming through a certain focal length lens hits the chip and what it does to the field of view. This is a real consideration.

This will help you visualize it. The AF100 field of view is significantly smaller than super35 with the same focal length lens. Getting wide on the AF100 with 35mm cine style lenses will be harder.

http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

It's not that close in size and I am speaking to using real tools with a real camera, which includes cine style lenses that are made to cover a 35mm film plane (cinema). I am not speaking about the 5d at all. If Zeiss or someone made micro 4/3 lenses, this conversation would be over, but they don't.


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Jeff Regan
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 6, 2010 at 4:06:52 am

You're confusing Full Frame 35 stills with Super 35 motion picture frame size:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/attachment.php?attachmentid=25235&d=1288725080

AF100 sensor is 18.9X10.63, Academy is 22X12.3, S35 is 24X13.5, FF35 stills is 36X20.3, the latter is 2X, has nothing to do with motion picture frame size or FOV.

Crop factor for Af100 vs. Academy is 1.18 That means a shot taken 10' from subject with 35mm motion picture camera would have to be taken from 11.8 feet away for the same field of view with an AF100. Hardly a big deal, not close to a 2x crop factor--that's 35mm stills.

Zeiss does make Compact Primes with a micro 4/3 mount now. This has no bearing on FOV--Zeiss CP lenses have the same FOV whether PL-mount or micro 4/3 when used on an AF100.

Bottom line, shoot on with an Alexa, 35BL, RED, or AF100, and the difference in FOV would be subtle. Most DP's who use Pro35 DOF adapters don't know that the frame size is 18% smaller than Academy. At least I haven't heard complaints.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 6, 2010 at 4:44:05 am

It's an m4/3 mount, but it's the same lens. I'm talking a true m4/3 lens, not just a mount.

I disagree with you, on fov, but that's ok. I know, I know, more math and physics.

And DOF adaptors on 2/3 or 1/3" chip brings so much more to the visual table than the cameras they are mounted to that who would complain?

Still can't wait to see the af100.


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Jeff Regan
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 6, 2010 at 3:02:29 pm

Jeremy,

It's okay to disagree with me, but the link your provided and the one I provided show the reality of FOV. The crop factor of an AF100 vs. 35mm motion picture cameras or most 35mm size digital cameras is a non-issue. Nowhere near 2X, it's under 20%.

It is not the lens or lens mount that changes FOV when mounted on different cameras, it's the sensor size in the camera. The AF100 is, for all intents and purposes, a very low cost 35mm digital Cine camera without the compromises, workarounds and artifacts of DSLR cameras, where video is an afterthought.

We certainly agree about wanting to see the AF100 on a set near us!

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 6, 2010 at 3:52:45 pm

[Jeff Regan] "Nowhere near 2X, it's under 20%. "

I realize I was wrong about it, I retract my earlier 2x comments. Sorry.

The chart says it's a 1.3x crop factor from s35, not 2x. I over reacted and believed everything I've read in the paper. And you were right, 2x pertains to the 5D. I don't care about the 5D at all for video except that it made the AF100 and the like possible.

If you compare the rest of the higher end sensors to the s35, they are super close, the AF100 is not that close, but much better than 2/3"! :)

And yes, I am speaking of a m4/3 image circle lens instead of one that's made to cover 35mm.

I can probably guess a number of reasons why m4/3 was chosen, I mean why not go at least APS-C? At first I questioned it, but as I think about it more, it makes a lot of sense.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 8, 2010 at 8:32:46 pm

Just when you thought it was safe:

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/xdcamcamcorders/pmw-f3k/features


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John Fishback
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 8, 2010 at 8:52:16 pm

This is great. I can't wait to see what Canon has in their back pocket. I canceled an order for an AF-100 about a month or so back because it occurred to me other, similar cameras might be coming, and it'd be crazy to jump too soon, even though I'm a committed Panny user. It's a great time to be alive!

John

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 8, 2010 at 9:27:22 pm

The Sony is 4 times the price of the Panasonic. 5ish grand vs 20ish grand. And this records to XDcam. Bleccch.

We are in line for an AF100 as well. Not sure about pulling the trigger, though!

As far as Canon, I don't know. Seems like they would have announced something at their giant, once every 5 year expo a couple of weeks back if something was even sort of close to being ready.

I'd like to see an AVC-I version of the AF-100 with a larger sensor. Then I'd be sold. Hint. Nod. Wink.


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John Fishback
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 8, 2010 at 9:59:51 pm

You're right about price. I planned on using the Ki Pro mini for acquisition, so how the cams record to their cards is less of an issue for me. I think I'll stay off the bleeding edge on this and see what folks say once they're released. I'm very interested if there will be new lenses announced for the AF-100.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New AF 100
on Nov 8, 2010 at 10:10:06 pm

[John Fishback] "I planned on using the Ki Pro mini for acquisition, so how the cams record to their cards is less of an issue for me."

Oh me too. No doubt.

The Sony says it will do 1080p60 with an April 2011 firmware update. That's kinda cool.


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