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Comparing Features of HMC150 vs HPX170 & HVX200

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Isaac Brillant
Comparing Features of HMC150 vs HPX170 & HVX200
on Jan 6, 2010 at 10:37:24 pm

I'm reposting this from the HMC forum. Not sure if thats proper etiquette, but some of my questions are probably more for HPX/HVX ppl... thanks

Hi,

I looked on the boards for the answers to these questions, but most of them are outdated... So if anyone can answer these few questions, I'd appreciate it and it should help any other ppl considering these 3 cameras:

1) Does the HMC150 also shoot in NATIVE 24p like the HPX and HVX?

2) I read that the HVX shoots native 24p but ONLY in 720? (Although - this was from a 2005 post) Is that true, and why is that? Why would any pulldown be needed if recording to cards?

3) Does the HMC150 share the same Focus Assist modes, Waveform, Histogram, and Vectorscope as the HPX and HVX?

4) Am I correct that of the 3 cameras, only HPX has HD-SDI? When would I want HD-SDI, and when would HDMI be a better option? Could I use a consumer HD LCD monitor via both of these outputs, or only HDMI?

5) I read on a post (an old one) that the HVX has "real manual controls" but the HMC150 has "servos." Is that true, and what about the HPX?

6) According to this article by Barry Green, http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=164832), you lose over half your chroma info when shooting in 720p vs 1080.

So, then in terms of chroma, would shooting on an HVX or HPX in 720p with 4:2:2 still be much better chroma than shooting with the HMC150 with 4:2:0 in 1920x1080, or would it be about the same?

7) Is there any significance in the fact (if this is in fact, a fact) that 1080 for the HMC150 is 1920x1080 but the HVX/HPX's is 1280x1080, and that the HMC's 720 setting is 1280x720 vs the HVX/HPX's 960x720?

8) Do the HVX and HPX have Variable Frame Rates that the HMC150 lacks?

9) This is a really subjective question, but I'm just curious, do you all (who ever's reading this) usually get the full warranty (for example Sagemax's which covers impact and accidental damage) for these prosumer level cameras, or do people get by with the parts&labor warranties?

The reason I'm throwing this question out there is that I found a new highly discounted HVX200 from a reputable dealer, but it's an import so I can't buy a FULL warranty on it and it doesn't have the USA warranty - so I would have to buy a 2 year parts & labor warranty)

Lastly, I made this GB per Hour chart for storage space for the various codecs. Could someone tell me if this is correct? Maybe it'll help others calculate storage as well.:

AVCDH.........1080p (1920x1080)....11 GB/Hr
AVCDH.........720p (1280x720)......11 GB/Hr
ProRes(LT)....1280x1080p...............31 GB/Hr (1280 because it's transcoded from DVCProHD)
ProRes(LT).... 960x720p..................16 GB/Hr (960 because it's transcoded from DVCProHD)
ProRes.........1280x1080p................45 GB/Hr (1280 because it's transcoded from DVCProHD)
ProRes.........960x720p....................23 GB/Hr (960 because it's transcoded from DVCProHD)
DVCProHD...1280x1080p................48 GB/Hr
DVCProHD...960x720p................... 24 GB/Hr


Thanks for your time!!

Isaac



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Shane Ross
Re: Comparing Features of HMC150 vs HPX170 & HVX200
on Jan 7, 2010 at 12:01:57 am

[Isaac Brillant] "1) Does the HMC150 also shoot in NATIVE 24p like the HPX and HVX? "

Yes.

[Isaac Brillant] "2) I read that the HVX shoots native 24p but ONLY in 720?"

Yes. The HPX and HVX, and even the HMC only shoot native 24fps in 720p mode.

[Isaac Brillant] "t) Is that true, and why is that? Why would any pulldown be needed if recording to cards? "

Because of the...uhm... highly technological reason that I'm sure an engineer would be able to tell you. Just know that 1080 is too high of a bandwidth to be able to do this. I think...

[Isaac Brillant] "3) Does the HMC150 share the same Focus Assist modes, Waveform, Histogram, and Vectorscope as the HPX and HVX? "

Not sure...but the HPX has more things than the HVX. More focus assist options for example.

[Isaac Brillant] "4) Am I correct that of the 3 cameras, only HPX has HD-SDI? When would I want HD-SDI, and when would HDMI be a better option? Could I use a consumer HD LCD monitor via both of these outputs, or only HDMI? "

Correct, it is the only one. You would want SDI when you have a capture card that has SDI in, or an external monitor for the producer/director to watch. Or if you are recording to an external deck, or to a P2 Gear that can record AVCintra. HDMI is strictly consumer... better option if you want to play back on an HDTV. CONSUMER monitor will not have SDI inputs. That is strictly a pro connection type.

[Isaac Brillant] "5) I read on a post (an old one) that the HVX has "real manual controls" but the HMC150 has "servos." Is that true, and what about the HPX? "

Manual controls for.... what? Lens? The all have manual control options.

[Isaac Brillant] "6) According to this article by Barry Green, http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=164832), you lose over half your chroma info when shooting in 720p vs 1080. "

Is there a question here? Yes, that is true of the HMC camera. Because of the 4:2:0 format...vs the better 4:2:2 format of the HVX and HPX... you are already missing chroma, so shooting a smaller format will make you lose more. If I understand what he is saying.

[Isaac Brillant] "So, then in terms of chroma, would shooting on an HVX or HPX in 720p with 4:2:2 still be much better chroma than shooting with the HMC150 with 4:2:0 in 1920x1080, or would it be about the same?"

ABSOLUTELY better. Because it has more. 4:2:2 is better than 4:2:0. Always has been....always will be. More information. Shooting 720p on the HPX will get you a better image than shooting AVCHD 1080i on the HMC. More Chroma. But the HMC is cheaper. There is a reason why.

[Isaac Brillant] "7) Is there any significance in the fact (if this is in fact, a fact) that 1080 for the HMC150 is 1920x1080 but the HVX/HPX's is 1280x1080, and that the HMC's 720 setting is 1280x720 vs the HVX/HPX's 960x720? "

Yes. More resolution. DVCPRO HD is an anamorphic format, the AVCCAM format isn't. But what you gain in resolution you lose in chroma sampling. There are give and takes, but both cameras are good cameras.

[Isaac Brillant] "8) Do the HVX and HPX have Variable Frame Rates that the HMC150 lacks?"

They have Variable Frame Rates, in 720p Mode. Does the HMC lack that? I don't know.

[Isaac Brillant] "I found a new highly discounted HVX200 from a reputable dealer, but it's an import so I can't buy a FULL warranty on it and it doesn't have the USA warranty"

AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID! I question the "reputable" nature of a company selling a non-US imported camera in the US. Might be the Japanese version, in which case the warranty is NOT a full one. Might be PAL, and you don't want to shoot a European format do you? No no no no no. Don't skimp here. Warrantys are VERY important. Get the GOOD camera. And go to B&H. I doubt this place is reputable. Not with that camera.

And your chart is pretty accurate. But know that NO NLE supports AVCHD natively...not with any real good results (Premiere says to, but it is a DOG). AVCHD needs to be imported as ProRes, so use that table when calculating storage space for editing.

And post this on DVXUser. Let Barry answer you. He knows more about this than nearly anyone.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Isaac Brillant
Re: Comparing Features of HMC150 vs HPX170 & HVX200
on Jan 7, 2010 at 12:16:26 am

Thanks for all the answers Shane.

I'm going to reply to a few of them:

[Because of the...uhm... highly technological reason that I'm sure an engineer would be able to tell you. Just know that 1080 is too high of a bandwidth to be able to do this. I think... ]

: ) Got it.


[Yes. More resolution. DVCPRO HD is an anamorphic format, the AVCCAM format isn't. But what you gain in resolution you lose in chroma sampling. There are give and takes, but both cameras are good cameras.]

I think I understand. But despite the fact that the HPX is anamorphic and the HMC150 isn't, the picture is still sharper on the HPX because it handles the color and contrast better?



Thanks!


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Shane Ross
Re: Comparing Features of HMC150 vs HPX170 & HVX200
on Jan 7, 2010 at 12:23:15 am

[Isaac Brillant] "But despite the fact that the HPX is anamorphic and the HMC150 isn't, the picture is still sharper on the HPX because it handles the color and contrast better? "

I wish I had the cameras to shoot side by side comparisons of something, but I don't. Barry would be the one to answer this...he's a camera guy. I am mainly workflow (I am an editor), but I have used/shot with the HVX and HPX models for years. Got my hands on the first two HVX200 cameras on the west coast. So I know how well they shoot. I had the HMC in my hands for a few days...and not at the same time I had my HPX-170. So... That will have to be answered by someone else.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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