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Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving

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Mike Healey
Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 19, 2009 at 5:23:51 pm

Is anyone using the Cache-A Prime Cache (LTO-4) for backing up and archiving P2 footage and projects? I recently had a demo unit in here that arrived DOA due to shipping issues and wasn't able to do anything with it. I expect it's replacement later this week. In the meantime, I'm trying to get a feel for what tape based back up solutions everyone is using. Specifically, if anyone is using the new Cache-A solution.

Thanks!

~Mike~

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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John Fishback
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 19, 2009 at 7:47:19 pm

I've seen some posts about it. Try searching the Cow. Here's a review I saw by Tom Tomchak.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 2 (FCP 6.0.5, Comp 3.0.5, DVDSP 4.2.1, Color 1.0.3)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Helmut Kobler
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 19, 2009 at 8:57:27 pm

Here's a review I wrote for StudioDaily of another LTO4 solution (Mac based). I use this hardware/software combination regularly in my own work, and have had no problems.

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technology/pvr/LTO4-Tape-Archiving-on-the-M...





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 19, 2009 at 9:04:53 pm

Yes, I have the Prime Cache. It works very well. Once I have completed my archive of all of my Sata drives, I will write up a review. It's ethernet controlled and pretty easy to figure out.

Jeremy


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 20, 2009 at 12:04:15 am

Thanks guys! I've seen/read both of the reviews mentioned. Any suggestions for P2 specific workflow? I'm familiar with the network workflow but what about coming in from a shoot and archiving/backing up P2 footage? According to Cache-A I can plug the HVX200 directly into the USB on the front and have at it but how do I control the data and verify via USB? I thought that was Firewire only feature? I'm trying to get my head wrapped around managing P2 assets AND backing up projects.

Thanks!

~M~

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:40:11 am

Not sure about attaching the camera directly, haven't tried that one, but you could attach the camera to your computer, mount the vtape (it's the drive inside the cache-a) and do a transfer just like you would any other file copy. If you have an LTO tape in the machine, it will also copy to that. If not, you can wait and put in a tape later. WHen you're ready to copy to tape, you pop one in, initialize it, then drag the folder to the vtape folder. It sounds more complicated than it is.

The workflow I use is to shoot and archive to 2 SATA drives in the field. I then edit the metadata and update both drives. I then transfer the p2 media to my raid where I use a native MXF workflow (no log and transfer, no media duplication with log and transfer unless needed) where it is not secured with RAID5. I edit the project. I then archive all the project data from MXF to FCP projects to everything, I put this on another temporary raid5 drive that is a very cheap NAS. That way, the data is still protected. Then on that storage device and a folder gets to be around 770GBs, I will then move that folder over to the vtape. Once it's there, I then make an LTO tape, then I make a backup tape.

SO far, it's been working great. You don't have to do it the way I do, but it's good for us since all of our machines can access the cheap NAS and drag stuff to archive to it without tying up the Cache-A machine. This way we do larger archives less frequently to the LTO drive. You could also do smaller archives to the LTO more frequently, it doesn't really matter.

Hope all that makes sense.

Jeremy

-----------
Dual Quad core 3.0Ghz <> 16GB RAM <> FCP 6.0.3 <> Kona 3
Sonnet D800RAID, 8TB
OS 10.5.2 <> QT 7.4.5


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Helmut Kobler
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 20, 2009 at 9:07:09 am

My workflow is a little simpler, largely because my work doesn't have to be accessible by other workstations.

I shoot with one 64GB E series P2 card and five 32s (while I wait for my other four 64s to come in....where oh where are those, Panasonic??). Most of the time, I don't need to worry about transferring footage in the field, I can do it once I get into the office. If I do have to offload footage in the field, it goes to a Raid 1 hard drive.

From there, my general worklow has been: Back at the office, I offload all the cards with a 5 card reader (PCD35) very quickly to a RAID 6 Sonnet drive, using Shotput Pro software. I use P2 Flow to edit the metadata. Before doing anything else, I pop in an LTO4 tape and copy the footage to tape, so I'm 100% sure I have my backup. Then I edit from the Raid 6 in Final Cut Pro, and can erase my cards anytime. I edit the raw MXF files like Jeremy does (no Log and Transfer), using MXF4Mac's QT Import software.

I have also started to experiment with a different workflow, which is to put the P2 cards in my 5 card reader, and do a direct Log and Transfer within Final Cut (this does not require using Shotput Pro for offloading, nor does it need the MXF4Mac software for editing in Final Cut). Then,I copy directly from the P2 cards to my LTO4 drive, to make a backup of the original card contents. It's a simpler workflow for when I am just shooting casual stuff, experimenting, etc.







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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 22, 2009 at 3:34:44 am

Jeremy,

I have the Cache-A appliance hooked up and mounted as a share drive. I use Panasonic's P2 CMS to offload P2 Cards to my RAID and other archive drives. I tried to use the same method to offload to the VTAPE on the Cache-A. Everything seemed to be going great until it came time to verify the data. At the end of the export I got the summary dialog box and instead of having 0 errors it told me all files failed to copy. However, when I poked around on the VTAPE I saw that the entire P2 card contents seemed to be in tact AND the assets even played back fine from the appliance.

Any thoughts as to why the verify/compare failed? What are you using to offload P2 cards? I've read and heard about Shot Put but I use the free CMS from Panasonic b/c it's worked great until now. Not sure if it's the software or appliance not communicating.

BTW, I learned you can, in fact, offload directly to the Cache-A via a P2 device. Just plug in to a USB jack on the appliance and it will show up in the File Manager "Source Directory" after a refresh. You have to have a computer connected to control the appliance but it's suppose to be faster then doing what I'm trying to do by plugging into the desktop and exporting via the Gb network. I just don't see a way to effectively manage the data and workflow directly from the Cache-A web based control panel at this point. Maybe I'm missing something?

I would appreciate any input!

Thanks!

~Mike~

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 22, 2009 at 2:10:45 pm

Hi Mike. So let me get this straight.

Are you using p2cms to move the files from your raid to the vtape?


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 22, 2009 at 2:31:54 pm

No. I'm using P2 CMS to offload from HVX to the Cache-A appliance. Same process as going from HVX to RAID but I get the copy failed message when ofoading to the Cach-A. Sorry for the confusion!

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 22, 2009 at 3:34:29 pm

[Mike Healey] "I'm using P2 CMS to offload from HVX to the Cache-A appliance."

Give me the signal path.

HVX to computer. P2CMS running on computer, exporting using P2CMS straight to vtape.

Is that right?


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 22, 2009 at 3:42:14 pm

That's right. Only thing in that flow is a cisco Gb DHCP router because it has to be there. The Cache-A is mounted and is mapped as a network drive share as well. Not sure that helps but I know p2cms requires a drive letter to offload.

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 22, 2009 at 4:10:01 pm

I have not tried your method, Mike. I usally offload to my raid, edit metadata, and then move everything (when project is complete) to the NAS situation I explained earlier for temporary protected storage, then once that fills up, I make a tape. I will have to try your method to see what I get.

Jeremy


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 29, 2009 at 9:46:38 pm

Jeremy - I'm going to wait on the purchase of the Cache-A appliance for now. I'm just not 100% sold on it yet. In the meantime, I've been looking at various NAS RAIDs. Can you make a suggestion or two which direction/brand to go with? I'm looking at RAID 5 over a Gb network. I've read a bunch about Netgear and the LaCie 5Big. Your thoughts?

Thanks!

~Mike~

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 29, 2009 at 9:54:31 pm

Hi, Mike.

What Netgear? I don't have any experince with those.

What are you planning to do when the drive gets full? Just swap in another 5 hard drives?

Jeremy


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 29, 2009 at 10:32:57 pm

If you do a search on B&H for Netgear it will return about 91 hits for the complete line. Some disco'd, some accepting orders and the rest in stock. I'm just looking for something short term in addition to my Blu-ray and HDD archives until I can decide if LTO-4 is the solution I want to go with.

~M~

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 30, 2009 at 3:08:50 pm

[Mike Healey] " I'm just looking for something short term"

If it's short term, then I would just buy more HDDs and double them up.

What's holding you back from the LTO4?

Jeremy


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 30, 2009 at 3:37:14 pm

The Cache-A solution seems ok for backing up projects and assets but my priority is managing daily P2 footage as well as backing up projects.

I\'ll shoot something in the morning, have to offload cards and shoot something in the afternoon. I\'d like to be able to offload directly to an appliance and manage those assets later. The Cache-A is not designed for that but Tom Goldberg told me they have gotten several requests from others and plan to add that to the workflow.

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 30, 2009 at 4:14:57 pm

[Mike Healey] " I\'d like to be able to offload directly to an appliance and manage those assets later."

The Cache-A (in it's current form) is definitely something that is meant as a longer term archving solution, not an intermediaite.

Have you seen this? I have not tried it and can't vouche for it.

http://blog.abelcine.com/2009/08/25/nexto-video-storage-pro-2/

Jeremy


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Mike Healey
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Oct 30, 2009 at 9:28:13 pm

Neat gadget with potential. Thanks for sharing!

~Mike~

Mike Healey Productions, Inc.

create | shoot | edit | deliever

http://www.MikeHealeyProductions.com


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soren k jensen
Re: Cache-A LTO-4 for P2 Archiving
on Dec 14, 2009 at 4:22:20 pm

Dear Helmut,
Are you aware of any PCI-X SAS cards for the G5?Thanks for the review of your LTO4 workflow!


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