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Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues

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Al Signore
Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 3, 2009 at 7:35:36 pm

Having some noise issues, and, second guessing some methods. I think part of the problem is having a couple different options......

Using 2 Hpx's w Redrock M2 encore 35mm adaptors and a really nice collection of Canon L lenses. Image looks good, nice shallow DOF, but I get some noise in the shot that I'm uncomfortable with. Figured the adaptor would be introducing the noise but footage from the HPX alone looks noisy as well.

Started thinking maybe the DVCPRO HD codec itself was the "culprit", we have an AJA KiPro at the studio I work at, so I ran a test with it recording to Pro Res 422 HQ through the HD-SDI port on the HPX. Still noisy, but I'm a little uncertain about one aspect of the test I ran (unfamiliar with HD-SDI). Can you use a standard BNC cable? It's a really short run (4ft) but I'm not sure if maybe that degraded the signal.

I'd feel a lot better if I could just get the noise way down. Preproduction has been really awesome, and we'll be well prepared if I can just choose a dam workflow and get the image I'm looking for.....but I'm almost chasing my tail here and am pretty frustrated at this point regarding this....

Also, with the HPX shooting a feature, should I go with 720p or 1080i 24p? Thinking 1080i 24p but how do manage to pull the frames if you're not capturing (like 24p dv)?

Another option altogether (wow) is to shoot on a Canon XH-A1 with the 35mm adaptor and the KiPro. The only hitch here is it's not the XH-G1 with the HDMI out, so I'd be going to the KiPro via component out. How would this affect quality? Would it be a big dropoff?

Any and all help would be welcome. (Pro Res 422 vs DVCPRO, 1080i24p vs 720p, HPX vs XHA1)

As you guys can see - my brain is frying over it!

SIZZLE SIZZLE










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Noah Kadner
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 3, 2009 at 11:38:59 pm

Those adaptors knock about a stop of light away- are you opening way up and adding gain?

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, and Panasonic DVX100.
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Al Signore
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 4, 2009 at 12:00:34 am

Gain is the devil! No, using zero gain and checking the waveform on the HPX for proper exposure....

Redrock claims it loses 1/2 a stop, I think it's closer to what you're saying at around 1....

For most of the tests, the HPX was stopped to 2.4, a couple times it was open all the way. You think that will introduce a lot of noise?

Gonna run some more tests with the KiPro tonight....




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Noah Kadner
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 4, 2009 at 6:11:58 am

Sure... you might be underexposing that looks like noise but it's really not...

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com
DSLR Cinematography Blog


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Al Signore
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 5, 2009 at 7:55:51 pm

yeah - i don't think that's it - i checked the waveform for exposure and the shots were lit well....

not sure what you meant about it looking like noise but it's really not. If it looks like noise then it IS noise, whether it's caused by underexposure or crappy sensor, etc.........

Why would opening the iris all the way introduce gain?






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Al Signore
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 5, 2009 at 8:09:13 pm

sorry - what i meant to say was - why would opening the iris all the way introduce noise?


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Noah Kadner
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 5, 2009 at 8:58:59 pm

Well because if you are opening all the way- you're either exactly at the proper exposure for everything in the frame- possible. Or some things in the frame are underexposed- fairly likely. That would read as grain. Feel free to post some shots though- we can't see your footage from here. I can tell you this camera when properly setup is not noisy.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, and Panasonic DVX100.
Call Box Training
DSLR Cinematography Blog


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Shooting feature film soon with 2 HPX 170's, but having some noise issues
on Oct 6, 2009 at 1:57:04 pm

There are many different types of noise. A screen grab will help us see what you're seeing


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