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Tim Maloney
Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 20, 2009 at 3:55:03 am

Hello All,

I am very disappointed with the company I have supported over the years.

From DVCPRO in 2000 through a Varicam rig, till now with a HPX3000 I've used and enjoyed Panasonic Products.

Today though - I'm over them.

As I prep for a shoot ( where we finally got a client to move from tape shooting ( DVCAM )
to him bringing his hard drive to the shoot and us running an archive LTO tape for him ) I find that F$$^*%(&^*G time-code doesn't flow down the firewire cable whilst in camera recording to the cards.

So FCP can't capture the footage except in uncontrolled fashion, the archive we make from the in camera cards will bear no relation to the footage on the drive he takes away!!!!!!

What the F(*^(*&()_K is a high end camera not doing what it should- IE whilst the camera is recording the timecode applied to the card is not reflected in the data stream in the firewire out.

Sony does it why not Panasonic????

This is stupid.

We've looked everywhere and can't find a menu item to make it happen. It happens on playback!!!!

Have I missed something in Pass????

Informed client that I could use a Stills flash to provide a link between his recording and the archive - guess what - he wants to go back to Tape.

Panasonic - Listen up - Listen to your customers, Get F)(*&(**&G AVCINTRA adopted by Apple instead of the transcode to Pro Res. Pay them - as obviously Sony has to adopt theirs.

Get the MXF Fields generated by the cameras adopted natively by FCP or give us a choice to create an FCP set.

Keep lowering the cost of the cards.

And get timecode into the firewire stream!!!!

Best

Tim Maloney
Axis Films Australia










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gary adcock
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 20, 2009 at 12:34:42 pm

[Tim M] "So FCP can't capture the footage except in uncontrolled fashion, the archive we make from the in camera cards will bear no relation to the footage on the drive he takes away!!!!!! "

Tim, sorry but that is NOT a panasonic problem, FCP does not record LTC timecode at all, and in Capture Now you have told it not to record incoming TC. This is an FCP issue.

now there are 3rd party devices that can do this over HDSDI like Aja's IoHD.

"Sony does it why not Panasonic???? "
Not with FCP is does not, this is an apple issue with live TC.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
http://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 20, 2009 at 2:07:44 pm

What Gary says.


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Shane Ross
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 20, 2009 at 8:48:46 pm

FCP firewire capture only retains TC when it has deck control, such as DVCAM and HDV and DVCPRO HD (Varicam). With no deck to control...no tape...there is no TC stream...this is an FCP issue. A Firestore can record timecode via firewire, so it is present in the firewire connection. But FCP doesn't capture it due to how FCP needs to get TC via firewire.

Testing this stuff before you shoot is always wise.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Tim Maloney
Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 1:49:58 am

Hi Gary, Jeremy and Shane,

So T/C is present???

All other NLE's capable of being on a laptop are able to target a clients drive using T/C in the stream?

If so I've got CS4 so I'll plan to use it in future.

Surely with the Gazzilions of FCP licenses sold, a plug for FCP to fake a deck being present would be a great seller for someone ???

Acknowledging Apple's lack of interest here, Is this a product of where FCP came from all those years ago - was it Engine??

Like the I/O but trying to stay away from hardware solutions. As the point of all this is to avoid additional hardware.

Any comment about Native AVCintra non adoption by Apple??

If Sony's codecs and workflows are adopted at or near launch and they are not a partner with Apple, what is Panasonic doing wrong??

Surely the best marketing is wide adoption of the workflow at launch.

You wouldn't need to discount cameras ( destroying early adopters investment ) to sell them if the P2 workflow possibilities blow XDCAM and its derivatives into the weeds - as AVCINTRA100 with its superior codec, being native on FCP as well as AVID would.


Best

Tim

Tim Maloney
Managing Director
Axis Films Melbourne Australia
tim@axisfilms.com.au
G52.0 2.5 ram FCP 4,5 Cinewave 4.6 RT enabled OSX 10.3.3 QT 6.5,1 huge 1.8 Dual Max BMD HD LINK 23 inch Apple Cinema display


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Nate Stephens
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 20, 2009 at 9:29:52 pm

Tim if you were Taking the Firewire out of the back of the camera into a MacBook Pro using FCP and then recorded onto mirrored esata or Firewire drives,,,, And then just gave your client a copy of the folder on your hard drives....... would everybody be happier.....

FCP, Mac Pro, Mac Book Pro, HPX500, HVX200, Betacam, Dvcam
Write for the Edit, Shoot for the Edit, Edit.....KISS Principle


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Tim Maloney
Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 1:52:17 am

Point taken Nate,

I'm trying to get producers to own their own raided drives like the Cal Digit VR.

Tim

Tim Maloney
Managing Director
Axis Films Melbourne Australia
tim@axisfilms.com.au
G52.0 2.5 ram FCP 4,5 Cinewave 4.6 RT enabled OSX 10.3.3 QT 6.5,1 huge 1.8 Dual Max BMD HD LINK 23 inch Apple Cinema display


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Steve Eisen
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 1:55:09 am

I would use the AJA ioHD. If the KiPro was available, that would be my next choice.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Board of Directors
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Matt Gerard
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 1:51:13 pm

I had this issue when I was teching a 3 cam switched to tape show. Wanted to capture to FCP, but couldn't. Had 3 570's all TC synced along with a deck recording the switched feed. Turn around was critical timing, so I rented 4 Firestores ($50 each per day), one for each camera and one for the DVCMA deck. Worked flawlessly. I was an a@@hole about the camera ops all starting their records within 5 sec of each other, and all the TC matched and I had 3 camera iso's and the switched feed when I gathered all the files.

Personally, I don't' trust a computer to do live recording from a camera. I've had too many glitches happen when doing long capture now digitizes from tapes. with the firestores, its a dedicated device that does one thing and one thing only.

Also, saves you an operator for the computer.
Also, cam files and firestore files match start/stops better than capturing to FCP would.
Also TC matches.
Also your camera isn't tethered to a computer.

Logistically it seems a pain in the arse to have to coordinate 2 systems to roll tape(bits?) at (almost) the same time.

I can hear it now in our studio

Director "Talent ready? Yes? OK roll"
cam1 "Rolling"
FCP "wait, spinning ball"
cam1 "stop rolling"
FCP "ok, recording"
cam1 "shite, hang on rolling again"
director "everyone recording?"
cam1 "YES"
fcp "think so"
cam1 "speed"
fcp "uh, spinning ball again, software update just popped to the front"
cam1 " @#$# stopped rolling"
director "WTF?!?!"
fcp "OK rolling again"
cam1 "ROLLING"
talent "wait, ear prompter didn't start..."


I know people on this forum have had their share of issues with the Firestore products, I have as well, but its another option. Only thing is that you can't log and organize and edit your clips until you dump the footage off to a laptop, as you would be able to if you were capturing directly to FCP .

Also, if you have CS4, you should have On Location. Have you tried that? I haven't had the chance to play with it.

Another option is the proxy card for the 3000, we are going to look at getting it for our 2000. That would rock. End of day, hand over an SD card, here's your edit proxies, mr Client, Enjoy! crew is heading to DQ for a Mr Misty!

Matt (who was at work waaaaaaaayyyyy to late last night, can you tell??)

Its more fun to ride a slow motorcycle fast than a fast motorcycle slow...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 6:15:29 pm

[Matt Gerard] "Wanted to capture to FCP, but couldn't. Had 3 570's all TC synced along with a deck recording the switched feed."

A laptop and an ioHD using VTR Exchange or (if you can get one) a KiPro would solve all of this. You would need one device per camera if you wanted the ISOs, or you can just record the switch. This will allow tc in and out, and all analog and digital connections, save dual link HD.

Jeremy


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Matt Gerard
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 6:43:55 pm

Yes, those would have been nice options, but this shoot did happen a while ago. I haven't had one come up again. New options for new times. I still would be nervous about recording live to a computer, but as long as you have a backup, nothing can go wrong, right? ;-)

Matt

Its more fun to ride a slow motorcycle fast than a fast motorcycle slow...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 7:04:17 pm

[Matt Gerard] "I still would be nervous about recording live to a computer, but as long as you have a backup, nothing can go wrong, right? ;-) "

Tape backup is good. I record live a lot. A project I did is featured on this page (third one down).

http://www.aja.com/news/user-stories_article.php?id=8

Jeremy



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Matt Gerard
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 7:09:32 pm

We were able to maintain a very high quality throughout our production using the Io HD, with a 10-bit end-to-end pipeline......

Wow. Was that a prepared statement, or is that how you usually talk? ;-)

Good ideas to keep in the file incase I get more live recording gigs.

matt

Its more fun to ride a slow motorcycle fast than a fast motorcycle slow...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 7:12:42 pm

[Matt Gerard] "Wow. Was that a prepared statement, or is that how you usually talk? ;-) "

My being the total nerd that I am, it's acutally what I said if you can believe it.

Cheers.

Jeremy


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Matt Gerard
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 21, 2009 at 8:56:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "My being the total nerd that I am, it's acutally what I said if you can believe it.
"


Oh, I believe it. Nerd talk I can understand! Being able to compose something like that in my head, nope.
Matt

Its more fun to ride a slow motorcycle fast than a fast motorcycle slow...


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Emre Tufekci S.O.A.
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 24, 2009 at 4:28:33 pm

Panasonic - Listen up - Listen to your customers, Get F)(*&(**&G AVCINTRA adopted by Apple instead of the transcode to Pro Res. Pay them - as obviously Sony has to adopt theirs.

Wish granted!!!!!


Emre Tufekci
http://www.productionpit.com



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Matt Gerard
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 24, 2009 at 4:34:22 pm

aaaaHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Great timing!!!! If i didn't know any better, I'd say that this was planned!!! Timing was impeccable!!! Although I haven't gotten my hands on a new copy yet, it says NOWHERE about import the P2 metadata that the cam records. Just that you can create your own upon import.

AVCINTRA native is the cool kicker for me, although we'll see how well it edits....

matt

Its more fun to ride a slow motorcycle fast than a fast motorcycle slow...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Venting Now!!!!!
on Jul 25, 2009 at 3:24:10 pm

[Matt Gerard] " it says NOWHERE about import the P2 metadata that the cam records"

I don't know for sure yet, but someone said User Clip Name is supported, but that's not a lot of metadata.

I would recommend MXF4mac if you want full MXF support, including metadata and no log and transfer. Now with the AVC-I codec in FCP7, you can edit that in rt with proper 10 bit YUV decoding as well.

Jeremy


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