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720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!

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Sascha Engel
720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 13, 2009 at 5:09:08 am

Hi,

I shot a couple of days ago a video clip - for the first time on a P2. We wanted in some dance sequences and singing masters the slow motion effect. Unfortunately, I did not have the cam in 720PN Mode and choosing in Cinelike the 50fps, but in 720P Mode choosing 50fps. The result is weird and I do not know what I have now. The 720P 50fps looks strange - it's with audio, seeming to play back at normal speed, but it looks very hectic and speed up. When I force this material in a 25fps timeline in FCP it looks normal.
What do I have now? Is it 50fps or not? And if yes, why do i not see it double speed then?

Thanx a lot for solving my riddle!

Greetz,



Sascha Engel


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 13, 2009 at 10:00:20 pm

Hi People,
I hope, somebody will respond to that post even though I am not from PAL land!
Cannot find an answer and it drives me nuts! :-(





Sascha Engel


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D. Scott Dobbie
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 13, 2009 at 11:57:25 pm

Not sure if this will help, but I've found info on your combo in a couple places:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1506235
and
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/193/863887#863895

The first link seems to be the most appropriate.

Good luck!

-Scott



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 12:00:03 am

In the browser (scroll to the right), what does it say in the vid rate column?


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:01:55 pm

Hi Jeremy,

the once who were shot in 720P/50fps show under video rate exactly that 50fps. But the problem is, that they do not behave, like the once shot in 720PN Mode 50fps. They look somehow speed up and unnaturally faster than the 25fps material. But they contain Audio that runs at normal speed. So, I feel it compensates the visual material, speeding/catching up (showing all the extra frames) and then for a moment normal. But I really wanna know, how I can access the 50fps in this case? It's not working like the cranked up version of the PN Mode.
Drives ne nuts!




Sascha Engel


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:07:11 pm

If you go throught the footage frame by frame, do you have discrett frame or is there anything that's duplicated?

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:19:30 pm

What does it mean discrett frame? Sorry, don't know that word! ;-)




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:31:25 pm

Meaning, if you go through the video frame by frame (click the right arrow), so you see one frame after another that are different, or do you sometimes see two frames that are the same?

For example:

you could see frame 1, frame 2, frame 3, frame 4

or you might see, frame 1, frame 1, frame 2, frame 2, etc.

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:25:13 pm

I went through the footage - frame by frame - no doubles, no interlacing, one after the other, full frames, moving along in space. Because it's dance, you would spot double frames quiet easy, but there's nothing.



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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:29:16 pm

But there's an interesting phenomenon: When I go frame by frame through the 25fps material and through the 50fps material, there's a significant difference: the 50fps show much less movement from one frame to another than the 25 fps material. Which for me clearly means they are taken in a shorter time distance, so there should be 50 of them as it says in the video rate. But why the hell I can not acess them in the timeline ;-(



Sascha Engel


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cowcowcowcowcow
Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:32:54 pm

[Sascha Engel] "But why the hell I can not acess them in the timeline ;-( "

Can you do me a huge favor?

can you log and transfer 2 seconds of the problem video and upload the resulting Quicktime to yousendit or similar file sharing website?

I need to see this.

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 7:40:58 pm

I upload it right now, I will put the link on this thread - as soon as it's finished.

Thanx a lot!!!!!

Sascha Engel


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 7:45:20 pm

[Sascha Engel] "I upload it right now, I will put the link on this thread - as soon as it's finished.

Thanx a lot!!!!! "


Perfect. This will help a lot.

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 9:53:07 pm

Hi Jeremy,

here is the link:

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/675615200/ac35754031dbe11c12f8e14c32ac6eb4


Sascha Engel


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cowcowcowcowcow
Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 1:57:09 am

Thanks so much for sending this, as we can now speak the same language.

OK, so it seems that you shot in a format that you thought you didn’t. Did you have the remove duplicate frame option checked when you imported this? It’s in the Log and Transfer preferences section of the Log and Transfer window (it looks like a little gear).

I conformed the movie using the DVCPro HD Frame Rate Converter and got slow motion:

https://www.yousendit.com/download/dVlwd0VLU1AzS3FGa1E9PQ

I knocked off a few seconds to comply with yousendit’s 100MB limit, but you will get the idea. Plus, this way, you will have to figure out what I did! ;-D You did want slow motion, correct?

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 4:53:25 pm

Hallo Jeremy,

that's AMAZING!!!! Thank you so much!
Can you explain me:
1. What you exactly did and what was the problem mof the footage?
2.With what application you did it and how exactly, so I can do it to all my 50fps footage.


I really appreciate it!


Greetz,



Sascha Engel


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cowcowcowcowcow
Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 5:13:17 pm

A Ha! Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

There's no problem with the footage, I just think you had the camera set in a mode you didn't think it was like 25 over 50.

Before I tell you what I did, can you tell me if the remove duplicate frames option is checked in your log and transfer preferences?

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 6:24:08 pm

Very nice proverb!!!!!!!
Well, honestly I do not know...but I don't remember if I checked this box, so I guess...No.
I have to admit, it was the first time I worked with P2 footage that I had to convert myself.
I just added all the folder from the card into the log & transfer window, chose in & out points, named the clips and added them to the render que, then rendered them.
All of that went fine and the 25 fps footage also looks good and nomal


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 6:27:42 pm

Do you still have access to the original p2 media and are you in front of FCP with that media? I'd like you to try something.


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 6:29:50 pm

On my computer this box is checked, but I had to log & transfer it on a friend's machine, casue mine has a bug and doesn't recognize P2 Folders. And I do not know, if it's checked on his machine.



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cowcowcowcowcow
Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 6:42:28 pm

Well, ok. I was going to tell you to try with and without as that will do the process automatically when logging and transferring. Since you aren't sure, I'll tell you what you can do now.

First, make a new project then drag all of the clips that you want to make slow motion into the new project. Make sure the clips are in the root level of the browser and don't put them in bins. Then select one of the clips and go to Tools > DVCPro HD Frame Rate Converter. Check all the options and then choose 25 as a frame rate. name it (I usually keep the same name then add '_conform' i.e. clip name_conform) and save. The clip will then import into that new project. Once you have done that to all of them, then drag those new _conform clips to your original project.

Make sense?

As far as the bug on your machine, do you have the P2 drivers from Panasonic installed?

Jeremy


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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 6:49:05 pm

I will try later...gotta go.
About the P2 Driver..yes, I have it installed, if you mean the one, which you need, when you want to read the P2 cards in the PCI slot of my PowerBook.
There was a problem when I imported the Folders of the P2 footage into the log & Transfer window - they just weren't recongnized...nothing visible...not even an error message, I read about this on the creative cow site, that there's a certain bug, which let's FCP not recognize the files...that you have to clean reinstall system & FCP. Because I did not wanna do that, I logged it in a friend's place.



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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 15, 2009 at 11:10:11 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "A Ha! Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."


Yes, Jeremy, that is true but it also goes without saying that "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."





Sorry...I couldn't pass that one up, man.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint Exupéry






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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 16, 2009 at 6:58:17 am

Very nice proverb, specially the one about perfection - I like it!

How about:

A dremaer is one who can find his way only by the moonlight,
and his punishment is,
that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world!

Oscar Wilde




Greetz,



Sascha Engel


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 16, 2009 at 3:13:48 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] ""Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." "

Geez, Ron. Way to ruin the moment. ;-D



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D. Scott Dobbie
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 16, 2009 at 4:47:45 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] " "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." "

That's hysterical! My new favorite quote! :-)





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Sascha Engel
Re: 720P and 50fps - What do I have? HELP!!!
on Apr 14, 2009 at 5:12:38 pm

Thanx for the help, but both links did not really answer that question in a way that I could grasp it.
Still leaves me with the miracle, that every program I use says that footage is 50fps, but because it's recorded in the 720P and not 720 PN Mode makes it behave so strange.
Still happy for any suggestions.

Thanx!

Sascha Engel


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Mohamad Dahham
size and format
on Jul 6, 2009 at 2:57:29 pm

hi i need help to get 1980 x 1080 or 1920 x 1080 from the p2 HPX500 camera couse it gives me after capture in FCP 1440 x 1080


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: size and format
on Jul 6, 2009 at 7:23:00 pm

DVCPro HD is an anamorphic or 'thin raster' HD format. That is the size it is recorded. When you play out to tape via firewire or HDSDI, the picture gets stretched horizontally to match SMPTE spec. If you need a full raster file, then you export out of FCP and use Compressor to make a full raster file to suit your needs.

Jeremy


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