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HPX2000 HD strobing

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Jeff Cadge
HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 5, 2009 at 3:07:41 pm

We recently purchased a HPX 2000, we shoot mainly corporate & non profit videos that end up on the web or as a DVD. We also have a SDX900, both cameras have Fujinon HD lens.

When shooting with the SDX900 to minimize the strobing effect that comes along with progressive scan I usually shoot 30P, with the detail down low with excellent results compared to 24P acquisition.

With the HPX 2000 after doing a number of tests we settled on 720P, 30P using 100AVC codec with the detail settings on the camera at 0.

The quality looks great, but it seems like the strobing effect is worse with the HD
footage compared to the SD. Does the strobing increase in general when doing HD acquisition?

We are editing with FCP, any tips would be helpful.

Thank You,

Jeff Cadge

Cadge Productions Inc.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 5, 2009 at 9:00:11 pm

720p30 and 480p30 should look about the same, motion wise. When you say strobing, you mean judder?

What's your shutter set to? We keep ours set for 'Half' usually so that if we change frame rates, so does the shutter, but we tend to shoot in 24p. Any chance you can post a little bit of the footage?

Jeremy


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Jeff Cadge
Re: HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 6, 2009 at 1:27:52 am

Thanks for the response Jeremy,

Yes I call it strobing but I see judder is the proper term.

The shutter on both cameras is set at “half”.

The judder happens the most when panning or dollying at certain speeds, I shoot a lot of “run & gun” B-roll w/o a monitor and found shooting with the sdx900 @ 30P reduced that overall judder compared to 24P.

When shooting 720P @ 30P the judder just seems more apparent then SD 30P.

I’m going to do a side by side 180° pan using the HPX2000 shooting both SD & HD and let you know my results.

It’s interesting to see you shoot mostly at 24P with your HPX2000, how do you work around the judder issues?

Do you follow any rule of thumbs as to the amount of time a 90° or 180° pan should take?

Thanks,

Jeff Cadge




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 6, 2009 at 3:44:51 pm

[Jeff Cadge] "It’s interesting to see you shoot mostly at 24P with your HPX2000, how do you work around the judder issues? "

Well, I guess we are used to it. Pans need to be slower, we shoot a lot from dollies, when we go handheld, we just shoot. As long as you are not whip panning around all over the place, it works just fine. I guess it's safe to say, we are used to and like the look.

[Jeff Cadge] "Do you follow any rule of thumbs as to the amount of time a 90° or 180° pan should take? "

No, but if we are shooting a beauty shot of sorts, pans tend to go slow. If you can't go slow, maybe you can cover the shot with a few wide shots and a few close ups, but that would depend on your subject matter and where you can physically put the camera. It's hard to say without knowing what you are going to shoot with these pans.

If you don't like the judder, you can always shoot 720p60 and get more of a smooth video look.

Jeremy


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John Fishback
Re: HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 6, 2009 at 8:19:18 pm

Check out this thread. There's a lot of good info.
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/54/857388

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870
ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE Enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
24" TV-Logic Monitor
Final Cut Studio 2 (up to date)

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Jeff Cadge
Re: HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 7, 2009 at 2:14:34 pm



We got to the bottom of the 720 30P judder with our HPX2000, maybe an obvious solution to some but not to my editor or myself. Yesterday we did a number of 90-degree panning tests (pans with 5-10 second durations) shooting HD & SD, 24P & 30. Regardless of the resolution or panning speeds 30P had virtually no judder compared to the 24P footage.

Jeremy, I tried 60P in the past but felt you lose the progressive scan feel, I always had good results with our SDX900 shooting 30P with very little judder but maintaining the progressive “film” look.

When viewing the test pans, the 30P pans looked great on a 29.97 sequence but if you attempt to place the same clip on a 23.98 sequence and render the 30P clip it plays fine except for pans where there is judder. Our lesson from the P2 tests:
if you shoot a mix of 24P & 30P clips, edit on a 29.97 sequence.


What prompted my post was the judder we experienced in a recent project shooting with the HPX2000 720P. I shot interviews in 24P to give a softer look and our B-roll in 30P to reduce judder in pans.

We first brought our 24P interview footage into a sequence establishing a 23.98 timebase, which looked great. When we eventually brought the 30P B-roll into the sequence, we had to render the clips. After the render the 30P B-roll played OK, (most of the B-roll was not pans so we thought we were OK.) But we did have 2 panning shots that had judder which I thought was due to the camera panning.
But was in fact due to the 23.98 sequence, the same clips played fine without judder
on a 29.97 sequence.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff Cadge









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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HPX2000 HD strobing
on Apr 7, 2009 at 4:51:28 pm

I would recommend shooting in the same frame rate for the same project. FCP doesn't do a great job of editing material in different frame rates, unless you add your footage to a 59.94 timeline, in which the proper pulldown will get added by FCP (2:2 for 30p and 3:2 for 24p). FCP only adds correct pulldown to 720p sequences.

Jeremy


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