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jaenet guggenheim
hvx 200 1080i 24 P NOT Advanced
on Oct 15, 2008 at 9:30:27 pm

having trouble getting my footage to 24p.

if anyone can describe the proper work flow, i sure would appreciate it. have spent 8 hours on the phone with fcp help, another 3 or more hours with panasonic help, and everyone assures me it is possible.

i can not use cinema tools rev telecine as my camera forces the footage to be df, and cinema tools says it requires the footage be ndf.

i have fcp 6.0.3

the p2 cards download to the hard drives at 29.97.

how do i get my footage to be 23.98 or 24?

is 23.98 or 24p better?

my goal, if i do a good enough job, is to enter this in the really great festivals.

if i can get my 1080i 24p footage to 24p, should i switch shooting to 720 24pN?

i will be shooting over the next year. it is an "ambitious" project, but i'm in the deep end.

thanks to everyone --

jaenet




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: hvx 200 1080i 24 P NOT Advanced
on Oct 16, 2008 at 3:17:18 am

Use Compressor's Reverse Telecine funciton.

It's very easy and can run your footage in batches.

Jeremy


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jaenet guggenheim
Re: hvx 200 1080i 24 P NOT Advanced
on Oct 16, 2008 at 10:29:30 am

thank you jeremy,

i appreciate your reply! i just have been unable to get the compressor to work. i choose a setting, i choose a destination and then i hit submit and it says:

one or more target are incomplete

xxx

but i can't figure out what it means, since i have chosen what it told me to choose. and i won't even get into wondering how to change frame rate.

can you assist me further?

thanks for your time,

j



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jaenet guggenheim
Re: hvx 200 1080i 24 P NOT Advanced
on Oct 16, 2008 at 12:25:36 pm

hi again,

i have been struggling with compressor for the last few hours. i can barely export it now. there is no reverse telecine in my compressor. at least, i can't find it. and when i do help, i get "no results."

where is this feature?

how do i get a clip loaded into it, chose all the options i need, and get the reverse telecined clip to appear somewhere i chose?

thanks for your help,
j


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jaenet guggenheim
okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 16, 2008 at 1:45:13 pm

oaky, after staying up all night, trying to talk to a fcp expert who insisted compressor had no reverse telecine, i did it.

i got one lousy clip to separate into video and audio, and the video doesn't suck, like it does with a cinema tools reverse telecine.

now what?

have i got to go through this with every clip i finally stick in my 40 minute long movie?

i would rather do it one painful clip at a time, than deal with artifacts ruining everything.

is this work flow going to be what i do for the next year?

and now what, i have video here, sound there... how do i get it back into a sequence?

thanks for all your help.

it has taken me nearly a year to get to this point with the very painful 1080i 24P.



j



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jaenet guggenheim
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 16, 2008 at 1:49:10 pm

ooops. my audio is gone. now what?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 16, 2008 at 6:53:12 pm

Next time, you will do this process before you edit. Since Compressor 3, it most definitely does have a reverse telecine option.

Here's how you do a rev telecine on your footage. It is best to do it from the raw clips (meaning the clips right out of your capture scratch). What I would do if I were you is to media manage your timeline and pare down your footage so you won't have to do a lot of rematching by eye and unnecessary transcoding:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/995940


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jaenet guggenheim
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 17, 2008 at 10:20:59 am

thanks jeremy,

i was up for 2 days struggling with this, and accidentally pulled the plug on my scratch drive. so i have to relog and transfer anyway. everything.

so...i open my hard drive with the 15 partitions of clips on it. i can see them. they say vid rate 29.97, shooting rate 24.

and somehow i get that little clip straight from the hd into compressor? HOW? drag it?

i figure i will name all the raw clips, so i can find them again for my 25 fps sequence. that's possible, right?

so how do i get this "raw" clip into compressor?

then, because i am stupid, do i use the best hd dvd setting?

and what buttons do i click to get frame rate?

and once this thing pops out as a 23.98 (using the 23.976 fps) and i have my silent movie, how do i get it into a sequence?

thanks for your help. you are the first peson i've met after nearly a year of failure, who knows how to deal with this problem.

fcp help insisted, yesterday, that there was no reverse telecine in compressor. then i told her the page in the manual in which it is discussed (262). i just couldn't find how to access it. the manual is really precise about a lot of stuff, then gets very very vague in this area.

AND, SHOULD I SWICH TO 720 24PN at this point? or will it look really different?

thanks very very much,

jaenet





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 17, 2008 at 10:38:21 am

Wow. Okay, one thing at a time.

[jaenet guggenheim] "i was up for 2 days struggling with this, and accidentally pulled the plug on my scratch drive. so i have to relog and transfer anyway. everything. "

This is P2 material, right? Why do you have to relog and transfer? You can just select the clips in your bin and choose batch capture, FCP should take care of the rest.

[jaenet guggenheim] "and somehow i get that little clip straight from the hd into compressor? HOW? drag it? "

Once all the transferring is done, you can take the clips out of your Final Cut Pro Documents > Capture Scratch > YourProjectName folder and drag them to Compressor, yes.


[jaenet guggenheim] "i figure i will name all the raw clips, so i can find them again for my 25 fps sequence. that's possible, right? "

No, if you simply batch recapture, all the names should remain basically the same. Compressor will tack on a setting name if you want it to.


[jaenet guggenheim] "so how do i get this "raw" clip into compressor? "

Dragging it is fine.

[jaenet guggenheim] "then, because i am stupid, do i use the best hd dvd setting? "

I explain the settings in the other thread.


[jaenet guggenheim] "and what buttons do i click to get frame rate?
"


ALso explained in the other thread.

[jaenet guggenheim] "and once this thing pops out as a 23.98 (using the 23.976 fps) and i have my silent movie, how do i get it into a sequence? "

What do you mean by silent movie?

[jaenet guggenheim] "AND, SHOULD I SWICH TO 720 24PN at this point?"

You mean to shoot with?

Another question, why are you going through this trouble?


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jaenet guggenheim
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 17, 2008 at 11:21:40 am

hi jeremy,

i don't know about bins so will read.

i will follow your directions carefully. slowly.

i am making this short because i wrote it a year ago. i sent it to a pal from school who is doing well as a director and he really liked it. and i like it. and it stars two friends, one who is 70 and one who is 80. i feel time pressure because the younger one has health issues. my window of shooting is short.

i got the camera days before my first shoot, overseas. i had the dvx100 in school (finally graduated usc this spring) but the avids at school didn't do 24p so i never used that feature. i got the dvx200 because everyone from school said i had to shoot film. and if i couldn't do that at least i had to shoot hd.

and they said i couldn't shoot less than 1080i, for heavens sake. but one advised me to not shoot 1080i24p advanced, and i am glad. it is jerky.

but i have a day job, i am also shooting a doc with a still camera, and wrote the text this past year, for a book about the making of an exhibit in a natural history museum. i also helped take care of my niece. i have been working non stop and didn't have time to figure out importing issues.

i just kept shooting.

now i have 5 hds of 1080i 24p not adnvanced. i have another 5 hd to go before this project is done. (it is a very "ambitious" script).

i am concerned that the 1080i24p footage once it has gone through the compressor loses its sound. sure, a little file appeared next to the video, and that file said audio. but it was a flat line. andi it wasn't a silently shot clip.

maybe i lost the sound by not clicking some button on the compressor. is that possible? or does it come out silent, always, and then you have to go back to your 29.97 clip and use that sound?

this is a lot of work. i was wondering if i could switch to 720 24pn and have it easier? or will there be a visible difference in the images and also in the frame rate? after all, if one is 23.98 -- interlaced? not interlaced? and the other is 24p...

i can't switch, right? or can i?

i don't mind working hard, i just want to work smart. and i want this "film" to be the best i can possibly do. i don't want anything to be compromised.

thank you very very much,
jeremy



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 17, 2008 at 11:29:15 am

[jaenet guggenheim] "i am concerned that the 1080i24p footage once it has gone through the compressor loses its sound. sure, a little file appeared next to the video, and that file said audio. but it was a flat line. andi it wasn't a silently shot clip. "

It should not lose its audio, you simply set the audio to pass through (like I said in the other thread, please read it again, if you still don't understand it, write back).

If you have more shooting to do, you should shoot 1080 24p Advanced and edit @ 23.98 as long as you get the pulldown removal situation resolved. When you shoot Advanced, there's a preference in the log and transfer preferences that will remove the advanced pulldown frame upon import. Its fall down easy, much easier than removing normal 3:2 pulldown.

Jeremy


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jaenet guggenheim
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 17, 2008 at 11:55:43 am

jeremy,

thank you! i am concerned the 2:3:3:2 pulldown is smooth and the 2:3:3:2 isn't. i shot my dog wagging his tail. it went left, up, right, up. nothing in between.

is 24pa jerkly, as barry green says it is? that's my big worry. and i know that even if you make a short for a festival, a lot of people still see it only on their tv or computer screen.

xxx

should i use bins with the hd footage i have? i used the camera as a host, let it partition each hd itno 15 slots and filled as i went. that is what i have now, to work with. it does all say vid rate 29.97.

thank you so much!

jaenet




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jaenet guggenheim
still at a loss
on Oct 17, 2008 at 2:03:12 pm

okay, here i am in compressor.

i load a clip. click on the HD H.264 60 min. right?

click on the plus sign in the upper right corner of the settings box.

i find the encoder pane.

for file formats, i have alot of choices, but nothing that says dvc pro hd.

i have h.264 for dvd studio pro.

But your email says to

Duplicate the 1080i setting for DVCPro HD

Where????? What box is this in?

In the frame controls pane

I can click frame controls on

I can choose the deinterlace and get reverse telecine

But there is no 23.976 showing anywhere.

Xxxx

Where do I find that dvcpro hd that you tell me to click on? Or to set some tab to?




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: still at a loss
on Oct 17, 2008 at 2:50:24 pm

There's a seach bubble in the Compressor presets window. Try typing DVCPro


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 17, 2008 at 2:53:45 pm

When you shoot 24pA, you remove the p0ulldown before you edit and this process is nearly automatic. You then be left with 23.98 video with no pulldown and no jerkiness. You have to remove the pulldown first, though.

Jeremy


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jaenet guggenheim
thank you jeremy
on Oct 18, 2008 at 11:06:05 am

thank you so very very much, jeremy

my cousin mark -- a great shooter in nyc -- walked me through the baby steps inbetween your steps. i finally got my 23.976 clip MIT sound!

i appreciate your help, more than you can know. i have spent weeks and months struggling with this framte rate issue with fcp help, panasonic help, grabbing passing movie people in hopes they know something, and been given tons of conflicting and wrong answers.

you were the first person who could tell me how to get my 1089i24p not advanced footage into fcp. thank you.

of course, now that i finally see it, and see that it's blurry, i am wondering, "why do people like this?" so after all this enormous effort, i will still shoot with 1080i 24p not normal, and change the frame rates if i have to for festival entries. after all, i KNOW HOW TO DO IT NOW, THANK YOU!!!

you have really really really helped me. thank you.

jaenet






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Jeremy Garchow
Re: thank you jeremy
on Oct 19, 2008 at 12:18:06 am

You're very welcome. Glad you got it sorted out.

Next time, write here a little earlier and save yourself the months of frustration!

Jeremy


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Steven Gladney
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 20, 2008 at 8:08:11 pm

Hi Jeremy,

I was following the thread in which you were helping Jaenet and was hoping you might be able to assist me with something.

Please see the link to my original post below for full details:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/193/872737

Now, while I'm waiting on a response, I'm trying to do a little troubleshooting on my own to see if I can figure this thing out. I'm trying to go through compressor to see if I can reverse telecine my clips that way and I was looking at your thread that you referred to Jaenet.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/995940

My question was, when I'm creating the preset in Compressor (I usally never use custom sets, always the presets) do I need to:

1. Change my "Scan Mode:" to progressive or leave it at "Interlaced" (I'm thinking the latter).

2. Do I need to move my "Quality" Scale up to best or leave it at it's default "Medium" (This time I'm thinking the former, but I've also heard stories of how not to touch certain things in compressor because you may think you're doing some good, but only making it worse).

Any feedback you can provide would be appreciated.

Steven Gladney

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: okay, reverse telecine compressor style
on Oct 20, 2008 at 8:30:40 pm

[Steven Gladney] "1. Change my "Scan Mode:" to progressive or leave it at "Interlaced" (I'm thinking the latter). "

You are talking your output scan mode? That should be progressive.


[Steven Gladney] "2. Do I need to move my "Quality" Scale up to best or leave it at it's default "Medium""

That quality slider is ignored for some codecs and not for others. For dv, that quality slider is ignored. You can put it to best, but it won't change anything.

Jeremy


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