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What's The best Firestore..

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Michael Murray
What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 4, 2008 at 11:19:28 pm

Hio,

What is the best firestore (or other product) for my HVX-200A camera. I need longer record times and the P2 cards are just not cutting it for event shoots.

Anyone?

Michael Murray
Summer Wind Productions


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Michael Sacci
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 4, 2008 at 11:41:26 pm

FS-100

http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=150



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Michael Murray
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 5, 2008 at 2:27:22 am

Is that the only Firestore that works? How about other brands?

Thanks.

Michael Murray
Summer Wind Productions


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Shane Ross
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 5, 2008 at 7:49:13 am

There are no other brands of FIRESTORE. Firestore IS a brand...Focus Enhancements FIRESTORE.

There is also CITIDISK, by Shining Technology. It isn't a cheaper option, just another option.

http://www.shining.com/products/totalsolution/citidisk_hd/

But I hear about more people using the Firestore.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Noah Kadner
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 5, 2008 at 3:56:39 pm

I'd just invest in more P2 cards. With 2 or 3 32 GB P2 cards you can cover a lot more than a Firestore and a lot more reliably. Sure it's going to cost you some $$ but it will pay for itself in the long run.

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Bo Skelmose
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 5, 2008 at 10:00:20 pm

Yes - I have had different firestores also the FS 100 - only had problems with it - forget about anything else but the P2 cards. They are not that expenseive anymore and very reliable.



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Steve Eisen
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 6, 2008 at 2:45:30 am

I'm waiting for the 64GB P2 Card!!!

128GB by NAB? that would be nice.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Board of Directors
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Christopher Wright
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 7, 2008 at 1:01:54 am

It always amazes me that Noah always recommends P2 Cards!
The best deal is the new Firestore that has 250 GB storage.
I have never needed or desired the cost and the extra FCP ingest step required by P2 cards. I own two HVX-200s and two Firestores and have never had any problems whatsoever with the recording or editing of Firestore media. When Panasonic finally reduces P2 card storage to that the price of Firestore per GB, then buy them. Otherwise keep to your budget and common sense!

Dual 2.5 G5, IO, Kona LH, IO, Medea Raid, UL4D, NVidia 6800, 4Gig RAM
Octocore 8 GB Ram, Radeon card, MBP, MXO
Windows XP Adobe Studio CS3, Vegas 8.0, Lightwave 9.2, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 6, Continuum 5, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects


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Dave Neyman
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 7, 2008 at 7:57:12 pm

Christopher I think you are one of the lucky ones that has had no problems. Most people I know who have use firestores have had a problem that resulted in significant data loss. At that point the cost per GB is no longer a factor when you consider the cost of a reshoot. There are far fewer problems reported on P2 cards which is why I would have to agree with Noah.



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Noah Kadner
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 7, 2008 at 8:41:10 pm

Just want to say I have nothing against the idea of the Firestore. Focus is a huge company and they make lots of nice products, Firestore being one of them. We outline a Firestore workflow on our Call Box HVX200 DVD by the way.

http://www.callboxlive.com/store/panasonic-workflow-with-final-hvx200-p-33....

But that said, I hear of problems on the forums with Firestore failure and loss of footage, which is pretty much unforgivable to most shooters. You want your footage and P2 cards are more reliable in my and a lot of other HVX200 shooters' opinion. More expensive up front but you're buying convenience and piece of mind. Maybe not 100% perfect but pretty close. With a handful of 32GB cards you're good to go with most types of shoots.

Not too mention not having a Firestore is one less piece of gear you have to carry and recharge every night. So again, want to say I have nothing against the Firestore. It's just not my top workflow recommendation- all things considered.

-Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Christopher Wright
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 7, 2008 at 11:17:58 pm

Actually if you read many of the posts here on P2 cards, and do a search here on the COW, you will find many, many people having problems with the P2 "solution" as well. I was one of the early adopters of the FS-100 and as such have used the product ever since I bought one of the first HVX-200s available in the country. Usually FS-100 problems are caused by user error, lack of familiarity with tapeless footage acquisition, and just plain not reading either the Firestore or HVX-200 manuals, (much less doing a "test" shoot before your "real" one!), just as most P2 problems are. As the P2 cards can now handle longer shooting times, they are finally becoming more attractive and viable for those of us who shoot performance (operas, concerts, lectures, etc.) where you don't want or need the extra hassle of swapping out P2 cards to shoot 3 continuous hours of HD video. The P2 price has also always been exorbitant for the amount of storage you get. That is why more and more cameras are adopting the ubiquitous memory stick versus high priced, proprietary P2 cards. Data is data. And Noah is right, both "solutions" work fine if you know what you are doing, and what to look out for and avoid. And the Firestore solution, as of now, is much more cost effective.

Dual 2.5 G5, IO, Kona LH, IO, Medea Raid, UL4D, NVidia 6800, 4Gig RAM
Octocore 8 GB Ram, Radeon card, MBP, MXO
Windows XP Adobe Studio CS3, Vegas 8.0, Lightwave 9.2, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 6, Continuum 5, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects


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Rennie Klymyk
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 7, 2008 at 11:33:24 pm

It's always good to see a user of a system chime in in support of a piece of gear, way to go Christopher! I was "dissing" the firestore on an earlier thread and you chimed in in support of them there too and I felt I should have responded back saying I've never used one. When something does the job you bought it for and works for you that's a good thing. Thank you for your voice from experience.

I admit I've never used one but it's the extra bulk and tethering of cables that scares me about the technology. I have such a phobia against hardware like that as opposed to a small card that fits inside the camera the choice is a no brainer for me. When you add that to other necessities often needed like a wireless mic, a DOF adapter, a matte box, an AC power supply, an audio feed, on board light, etc. the camera starts looking like an octopus. One day someone's going to go to a venue and find the camera guy from the last event hanging off the side of a tripod, entangled in a web of cabling, and dead from strangulation or starvation. I'll take the cards inside the camera anytime.

When P2 cards were only 4GB I would have considered the Firestore much more seriously. Today my criteria would be:
#1- bulk and tethering VS small card inside the camera
#2- cost per GB of storage
#3- extra desire-ables like spare batteries, chargers, mounts etc.

With 64 and 128 GB cards on the horizon the argument for P2 only gets stronger however if you only use the firestore for longform locked down shooting like Michael asked about I'll agree, they are and always will be a viable alternative for data capture.

"thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star" ......Henry Wadsworth Longfellow


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Christopher Wright
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 8, 2008 at 5:30:34 pm

Thanks for acknowledging that Rennie! I have also used the Firestore on several feature shoots as well, and if you are used to having to rig up a 16mm or 35mm camera with video taps, filter boxes, etc., the Firestore really just becomes another "battery" to attach to the camera mechanism! I invested in the "BeBox" which attaches to the tripod as a mounting plate and holds the Firestore quite securely, as well as a gadget that ensures a tight fit for both the firewire cable and audio headphone output. Both of those contraptions make the addition of the FS pretty painless and transparent. The only situation where I find the Firestore less than perfect is in handheld "run and gun" situations, where it can indeed get in the way of quick access. And as I have stated many times previously, when the P2 cards get to 64 and 128 GB (and beyond??), and the price is more comparable per GB to the FS, I'm sure I can be persuaded to buy a few ;>)

Dual 2.5 G5, IO, Kona LH, IO, Medea Raid, UL4D, NVidia 6800, 4Gig RAM
Octocore 8 GB Ram, Radeon card, MBP, MXO
Windows XP Adobe Studio CS3, Vegas 8.0, Lightwave 9.2, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 6, Continuum 5, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects


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Michael Sacci
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 9, 2008 at 7:36:53 pm

I'm have a love/hate relationship with the Firestore. I have been burnt big time but that was a while back. Totally lost 2 different shoots (Cost me about $20K of business). One was in the earlier days when there seemed to be firewire issues. Had 3 camera/FS setups and they all were going in and out of record, in the dark durning a concert it is hard to figure out what is going on. The other was a user error with settings.

If you do use this device you HAVE to read the manual, FAQ and every other thing you can find before you go live. Once you get everything down it does work well but as stated not really for Run and Gun shooting.

If I had my choice I would shoot with P2 cards but if it makes more sense (Cheaper, even to rent a FS verse several P2 cards) I use the Firestore. Honestly there is something nerve wracking about any of the tapeless workflows.



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Rachel Lears
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Sep 10, 2008 at 9:29:00 pm

Hi,
I posted the other day regarding all the problems I've been having with my Firestore: http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/193/872112

Since I make documentaries, I need to be able to do "run and gun" type shooting; but since I also shoot events I'm worried about switching to P2. I read the entire FS manual and did tests before beginning to shoot; but still had all these problems.

Christopher, since you seem to have the best luck/process with the FS, if you had a chance to weigh in on the specific problems I had I'd really appreciate it. Anyone else with FS experience is also welcome to reply. I've heard the P2 arguments and am leaning toward going that route, but I'd love to know what I was doing wrong if anything. Thanks so much!


Rachel



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Andres Jimenez
Re: What's The best Firestore..
on Nov 25, 2008 at 3:56:36 am

I work in documentaries also and that's why I decided to use Firestores over P2cards. I haven't had any problems except for one thing, they don't work well on extreme temperatures so if you're planning to shoot under a heavy sun or on an extremely cold weather I recommend P2 cards, besides that I don't see any problem with Firestores.



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