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Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot

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Matthew Abourezk
Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 3, 2008 at 8:47:17 pm

Hi all,

Okay, I am again in over my head and need to be pointed in the right direction.
I will be shooting and editing a 1 hour long workout video that is sync'd to non-stop, high energy music.

I need to provide an audio source (Music) to play over an amplifier so the talent can hear it, but I also need that music source to drive a timecode that two HVX- 200's will sync to. The girls in the video are good, but they will inevitably have a lot of stops and starts. Since the music is pretty much a brain numbing repetitive piece with no clear audio cues (li.e. chorus,verse, solo, etc), and since the instructor prides herself on exercising precisely on the beat (and for the correct number of repetitions), I need a bullet proof way to shoot and edit this.

My thought (without really understanding the variables) is something along these lines, dub all music to a mini-dv tape (because it is 1 hour long) and play on a Sony DSR-45. Output the timecode from the DSR-45 to the cameras.

Any advice (other than finding a different line of work) would be greatly, greatly, greatly appreciated.

Matt



Talkingbox Digital Media Group, Inc.
http://www.talkingboxdmg.com
(203) 327-6617


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 3, 2008 at 9:55:44 pm

Do you really think you are going to run all the way through one hour with out stopping?

I think you should probably rethink your workflow.

Free run time of day timecode on the cameras and start them both with a remote (that will ensure proper sync within a frame or two).

ANd instead of having the playback device drive your timecode (there's no way to get tc into the HVX anyway), simply run the audio into each camera. That way, both cameras have the same timecode and the same audio no matter how many times you stop, start and rewind the music track.

Jeremy


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Matthew Abourezk
Re: Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 4, 2008 at 12:34:03 am

Hey Jeremy,
Thanks for the reply. No, as I said in my previous post, I think the girls are going to stop and start a lot. That is my biggest concern. I shot six of these videos for this group a while ago and it took three editors six months to edit because we didn't have time code sync. I am not going to make that mistake again. I was amazed at how much trouble a frame or two out of sync could be. Keep in mind, this is not a music video or a typical dialog edit where you have freedom to fudge things a little. This is a workout video where the viewer is doing high speed step aerobics with the video. A frame or two out of sync from one edit to the next means that suddenly the person exercising to the video is slightly off.

Here is what I learned.... (I'm trying to be a bit festive)
Exercise Music sounds like this = Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...
oops, the girls made a mistake, CUT!! back up the tape... start music... Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump...Thump... etc.....
Now YOU try to figure out which thump is the right one to manually sync to the music.
I learned this the hard way.

I talked to an owner of a HVX-200, who is my audio man on the next shoot. He said that he runs a tc signal into one of the unused audio tracks. I have no knowledge of how this works so I have to take his word for it.
Still open to suggestions as to how to sync the cameras...




Talkingbox Digital Media Group, Inc.
http://www.talkingboxdmg.com
(203) 327-6617


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 4, 2008 at 12:57:00 am

[Matthew Abourezk] "I talked to an owner of a HVX-200, who is my audio man on the next shoot. He said that he runs a tc signal into one of the unused audio tracks. I have no knowledge of how this works so I have to take his word for it.
Still open to suggestions as to how to sync the cameras... "


Well, you could do what I said in my first post. I'll explain it again, but first I can address what your audio guy said. That's a way to do it, but it might be more trouble than it's worth as you will have to run 3rd party software to get FCP to recognize that tc on the audio track. Here's my spelled out proposal, and the invoice is in the mail.

1) Get 2 HVX200s and set them up for free run tc and set them to the time of day BUT DON'T START THEM YET.

2) Put the two HVX200s very close to each other with lenses facing the same direction and then use the little REMOTE that comes with the cameras. You then start the TOD tc with ONE remote. That way both cameras tc will start on the same frame, or very very close to each other and will follow each other all day.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/193/868109

3) Take audio outputs of whatever you are going to use to start/stop/play the audio on set and send it to each camera. That way you will be able to determine the offset of the tc by matching up the audio just in case the free run tc is not spot on, and your editors will have a sound track to edit to and they won't have to wrry about when and where the song starts and stops as it's on the tape (or P2 or whatever).

4) Do the shoot, then do the edit. make a master, send in your invoice and plan a vacation. Perhaps if you're single and the exercise girls are single, you might ask one of them to go with you. Just don't be creepy about it, ok?

5) Drink beer and bask in your glory of your ingenious method that YOU thought up on how to make this shoot a success.

6) Drink water, go to sleep, wake up and pack for the next shoot.

Jeremy


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Matthew Abourezk
Re: Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 4, 2008 at 1:40:46 am

lol Jeremy, that was funny as heck. I needed a good laugh.... been a long day.

Thanks for the information, MUCH appreciated.

I will probably end up doing just what you suggested.

wait... if the remote solution doesn't work well, can I bill you for my extra time in post? Works both ways.. no?

Thanks again Jeremy, I really appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for me.
Matt

Talkingbox Digital Media Group, Inc.
http://www.talkingboxdmg.com
(203) 327-6617


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 4, 2008 at 2:19:34 am

[Matthew Abourezk] "wait... if the remote solution doesn't work well, can I bill you for my extra time in post? Works both ways.. no? "

Free tech support with paid invoice. ;)

The only gotchas are to check the tc every now and again and make sure there are still within reason (remember, you will have audio going to both to fix within a few frames, it's really easy). When you change batteries or shut off any one of the cameras, that's a good time to check. Anything you do that takes it out of record ready (such as checking takes on p2 or whatever).

I used this technique about a week ago and it was great. Are you recording to p2?

Jeremy


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Dave Neyman
Re: Sync two HVX-200's to music source for a 1 hour workout video shoot
on Jun 4, 2008 at 3:15:57 am

Jeremy has the best way to do this so I would listen to him. My experience has been that the cameras don't drift too much until you shut off the camera and or change batteries. Just reset the TC to TOD and repeat the remote start. Any offset in the time code can be adjusted in FCP. I shoot multi-cam like this a lot and it really does work pretty well.



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