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Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?

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Mitch Ives
Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 11, 2008 at 9:47:29 pm

I'm editing a project where two HVX-200's were used. One was set to squeeze mode (true 16:9), but the other camera was incorrectly set to Letterbox mode (which is 4:3 with black bars on top and bottom). Unfortunately, the closer camera is the one set in LB mode, so enlarging the frame 33% (to match the squeeze mode shot) makes it ugly. I'm cutting between these two cams (one close and one wide), so I can't have people fat (wide) in one shot and thin in the other. This has to go out to DVD, so I'm not sure what the best approach is.

If anyone has encountered this kind of mistake and knows a solution, I would be very grateful for any wisdom you could pass along...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 11, 2008 at 11:02:10 pm

The simplest solution would be to letter box the 16:9 footage- downside is you'll wind up with a 4:3 letterbox DVD rather than a native 16:9 one. The alternative is going to be 30% image resolution loss on the Letterbox shots expanded out to 16:9. A real bummer- fire the DP. Unless he's yourself of course. :)

-Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the HD Survival Guide!
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Mitch Ives
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 11, 2008 at 11:05:59 pm

Thanks Noah. Fortunately, I'm just editing it... which brings home the notion that an editor has less risk than a shooter... :-)

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 1:45:15 am

True but the shooter's job is a lot easier to quantify and charge by the hour for... BTW- are you going to NAB?

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the HD Survival Guide!
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Michael Sacci
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 5:47:12 pm

If I were you I would try one additional step when your project is done. If you edit everything 4:3 letterboxed your footage will match up the best. Then why not try an AJA conversion of the final timeline. If you have two systems (say a Kona and an Io) you can go out the one with a SD to SD conversion using the V Crop and capture this to the other as anamorphic. This will probably do much better than software distort and since both angles have done through the same process it should match up much better.

If you don't have this type of setup let me know and we can work something out.



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Mitch Ives
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 6:26:38 pm

[Michael Sacci] "If you have two systems (say a Kona and an Io) you can go out the one with a SD to SD conversion using the V Crop and capture this to the other as anamorphic. This will probably do much better than software distort and since both angles have done through the same process it should match up much better.

If you don't have this type of setup let me know and we can work something out."


We have a Kona LH in the G5 and a Kona 3 in the 8-core Intel. Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm not sure I completely understand this process, but it sounds interesting. Both have SDI. I hate to impose, but could you describe the steps to this process?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Michael Sacci
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 7:54:57 pm

When you finish editing your program link your two systems together via SDI (I also use embedded audio).

Lets say the timeline is on the Kona 3 system - set the output SD to SD to V Crop on this system. Then on your LH system set FCP to capture with non-controllable device and with a SD anamorphic codec. Start playing the sequence (with a few seconds of black for the real video starts) hit capture now on the LH (record) system. When done you should have a true anamorphic video clip. This should look a lot better then scaling in FCP, plus it is done in real time.






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Mitch Ives
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 8:09:27 pm

[Michael Sacci] "Lets say the timeline is on the Kona 3 system - set the output SD to SD to V Crop on this system. Then on your LH system set FCP to capture with non-controllable device and with a SD anamorphic codec. Start playing the sequence (with a few seconds of black for the real video starts) hit capture now on the LH (record) system. When done you should have a true anamorphic video clip. This should look a lot better then scaling in FCP, plus it is done in real time. "

To make sure I understand, is this to convert just the 4:3 LB video to true anamorphic, or is this to convert the final edited piece, which is a mix of 16:9 anamorphic and 4:3 LB (edited in a 4:3 timeline)?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Michael Sacci
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 8:24:15 pm

Either or. My thought is it might work best converting the final edited piece, that way the entire timeline goes through the process so quality loss is across the board. Thinking that if the loss is acceptable it won't go in and out like it would if you only did the footage shot letterboxed.



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Mitch Ives
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 12, 2008 at 6:24:13 pm

[Noah Kadner] "BTW- are you going to NAB? "

Yes, I'll keep an eye out for you...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Steve Wargo
Re: Mixed footage: is there a solution for this?
on Apr 13, 2008 at 8:24:27 pm

Mitch,
Why not take the 16x9 anamorphic footage and run it through a convertor to make it a 4x3 letterbox to match the other stuff? Seems like going the other way could work too but what format is the deliverable? If it's 4x3, my suggestion above gets you right there. If it's 16x9 for WS display, then take the letterboxed clips and crop them to 16x9 in Combustion or whatever.

The deliverable format will determine your course of action.

FYI, the projectinist at Ferrelli's supper club told me that 16x9 is "A regular picture where they put black bars over the top and bottom of the picture. Every idiot knows that." He was 100% correct on one of those points.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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