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exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?

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Matt Campbell
exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:14:11 pm

I'm trying to export a GFX animation with an alpha channel. I basically have a logo fading in (Fade behaviour) and moving into place, but when I export and layback over picture in Premiere CS6, the way the logo fades in is weird. Its fades from black and doesn't look good vs. dissolving in as it does in my comp. When I built this in MOTN 5, I have a reference layer for the background image turned on for positioning, logo fades is as expected, smooth dissolve from 0% to 100% opacity, and when I'm ready to export, I turn off that layer to create the alpha. Exporting using ProRes 4x4.

I do have an animated lens flare on this logo, happening later on but that's not my concern as I have a luma key on it and it gets knocked out as expected with the alpha channel. No problem there.

Normally I would build this all in MOTN 5 with background video on, but I can't with this one due to the Adjustment layers I have in PremierePro. I don't want the logo affected, so I'm placing that on a track above the footage and adjustment layers.

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)


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Stephen Smith
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:35:41 pm

Can you just add the fade in PPro?

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Matt Campbell
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 4:07:45 pm

Not really cause there are multiple elements to this. Logo treatment comes in, then the CTA: company name, dudes title, and URL. Each elements fades in the same with an upward movement. Is there no way to get the fades any better through the alpha? Like the luma key trick on a lens flare or anything else. I've had this same issue with AE too.

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)


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Andy Neil
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 4:23:09 pm

Do you have any blend modes applied because that won't translate outside of Motion. Also, it might still be possible that the lens flare is your issue. If you turn that layer off and export do you have the same result?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Matt Campbell
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 5:30:30 pm

Thanks Andy. No blend modes on those layers being animated. And turning off the lens flare and exporting w/Alpha doesn't help either. Here is what I'm referring to. On the 1st frame when the transition happens you can see the logo coming in. On the alpha, you see black.

No Aplha: PR 422 rendered with background on in MOTN. Don't want, due to adjustment layers in Premiere.



With Alpha: PR 4x4, background layer in Premiere, alpha GFX above adjustment layers is Premiere.


Is that just the nature of the alpha when exported? Will it work the way I want, dissolving in?

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)



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Andy Neil
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 5:51:10 pm

Can you upload the project sans media? Perhaps there's something else going on. The only other thing I can think is that there's something going on in premiere that's the issue. I know that Avid has issues with ProRes 4x4, but I figured is better at handling alpha channels.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Matt Campbell
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 6:21:28 pm

Thanks. Here you are, at least I hope that worked!

6300_uaendcard01ccow.zip

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)


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Matt Galuszewski
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 11:43:22 pm

Matt,

I downloaded your Motion project and exported a ProRes 4444 file. Imported this in to Premiere CC (I no longer have CS6 installed) and placed it on a timeline. It behaves exactly as expected here, exactly like the screen grab you posted from your Motion Project.

Although I don't have CS6 installed anymore I can assure you that alpha channels behaved as expected.

Anything I can test here for you?

Another Matt



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Matt Galuszewski
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 22, 2013 at 11:47:28 pm

Would you like to export a 1 second piece of your animation from motion and upload it. I can try it in Premiere here and see if the behaviour is the same.

Here's a view of my composite



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Andy Neil
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 23, 2013 at 12:31:25 am

Ok, I think I know what your problem is. I noticed the issue when I brought the footage into After Effects and interpreted the alpha as "straight" instead of "pre-multiplied" (which is the default output in Motion).

If you can interpret footage in Premiere (like you can in AE), then be sure to interpret the alpha as pre-multiplied.

Otherwise, try exporting as ProRes 4x4, but uncheck the pre-multiply alpha checkbox in the render settings.

You just seem to be suffering from an intepretation problem is all.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Matt Campbell
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 23, 2013 at 12:39:09 am

Thanks guys. I checked out for the day but will try your solution Andy, first thing in the AM. Yes, you can determine the alpha set up in Premiere like AE. Hope that works. I completely forgot to check that.

I get back to you all with my findings. Thx.

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)


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Matt Galuszewski
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 23, 2013 at 2:15:51 am

I forgot to mention that I exported from MOTION with Pre-Multiply checked OFF.

There is no alpha interpretation setting in Premiere, none that I have seen anyway. You can only choose to IGNORE or INVERT ALPHA.



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Andy Neil
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 23, 2013 at 3:31:04 am

You should then try to export with pre-multiply checked.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Matt Campbell
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 23, 2013 at 1:04:28 pm

Matt, you're correct, there is not option to change those settings in Premiere CS6, the only options are ignore alpha and invert. Neither of those I want. Did they update that in Premiere CC?

Matt & Andy, thank you! Unchecking Premultiply did the trick. I guess I never realized that before and should have looked into it. When this has happened in the past, I would always export and ProRes clip from FCP or PP and bring into MOTN and composite on it, only leaving that layer turned on for my exporting. Thus giving me the results I wanted.

Again, thank you. This will save me a few steps and allow me to keep my GFX all on 1 layer in PP.

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)


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Matt Galuszewski
Re: exporting Alpha channel but preserving the fade in/out behavior?
on Jul 23, 2013 at 8:23:25 pm

Matt. The Alpha check boxes are the same in CC.



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