FORUMS: list search recent posts

Moving Mat Issue

COW Forums : Apple Motion

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
sean lloyd
Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41:33 am

Hello Cow Crew,

I am having a minor problem that is turning into a major issue. I am working on a moving shot that dollies in and pans over to the action. It is an exterior shot and is night. I have created a moving mat that I have been using to have some Motion made train smoke appear as if it is traveling behind the building. As well, I replaced the sky with a moon that I have had to track to the shot.

Everything has been going well except for the fact that a portion of the mat seems to bounce a little bit against a portion of the building, not much, but enough to ruin the effect. I have tried going over that section but it seems very hard to fix.

My question is...is there a better way to to do this effect? For instance, some kind of garbage mat where I could use color key to key out the sky or create a mat from. I'm sure if I try to key out the sky without some sort of boundary I'll pick up a lot of blacks from the building.

This is one of those instances where I have come too far to turn around. Meaning that I have already put many hours into this and feel that I am close, but don't know how to proceed.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am on Motion 3.

Peace and thanks...Ian


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 5:09:49 am

Really hard to help without seeing the shot- can you upload to Vimeo or something please?

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 8:49:02 am

Will do. I'll post after it's up. Thanks...Ian


Return to posts index


sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 10:19:45 am

Hi Noah,

Here's a link.... http://triadproductions.us/TempVideo/TrainBy2a

The effects aren't finished or the moon, but you can see toward the toward the top right side of the building where most of the problem is. The mat isn't tracked all the way yet either. Thanks...Ian


Return to posts index

Arnie Schlissel
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 2:06:18 pm

Can you post the original shot, too?

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 2:58:28 pm

Basically you're trying to do a 3D shot in a 2D app. To that shot justice you'd track it in Syntheyes and make a 3D version of the smoke in a 3D app like LightWave or Cinema 4D. Then comp that properly 3D tracked element back into Motion. As it is now you'd really need to frame by frame keyframe that element to match the z movement. It doesn't help that the original shot is a bit wobbly. I'd wash that through a bit of stabilization first.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


Return to posts index


Andy Neil
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 4:50:09 pm

Have you tried the track points filter?

Andy


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 7:19:04 pm

I did run in through some stabilization, but then though better of it. I thought it might be better to do at the end.

No, I haven't tried the track points filter. Thanks... I'll check that out.

So there is no way to key out the sky?

Basically you are telling me that I have to start from scratch?

Thanks for the responses...Ian


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 7:28:26 pm

PS I am not really worried about the smoke. I feel like I can get that to play. It is far from finished. It is only the mat moving that is bothering me....


Return to posts index


Arnie Schlissel
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 7:35:30 pm

[sean lloyd] "So there is no way to key out the sky? "

You never posted the original shot. Nobody here has seen the original sky but you.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 7:41:12 pm

Hi Arnie,

Am doing that right now...I


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 7:46:39 pm

Hi Arnie,


Here it is. Forgive the aspect ratio, you'll get the idea. Thanks...I

http://triadproductions.us/TempVideo.htm


Return to posts index


Stephen Smith
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 8:12:07 pm

A solid sky, yeah, you should be able to key it out. It will effect other areas as well, so you will need to create a rough garbage matte so your don't key out other areas of the clip. You can also try messing with some blend modes and see if that works as well.




Stephen Smith
Utah Video Productions

Check out my Motion Training DVD

Check out my Motion Tutorials


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 9:30:15 pm

I tried doing this but did something wrong. I took the Beizer tool and drew in a shape then while I was on that layer, I tried to key it, but didn't see the effect even after I jockeyed around some of the layer orders. Did I do something wrong? I am by no means an expert in Motion. Thanks for your reply.



Return to posts index

Arnie Schlissel
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 8:12:45 pm

It would be difficult to key the sky because of the deep black under the eaves of the building. The blacks run into each other, so by the time you finished making your hold-out matte, you may as well have roto-ed out the sky anyway.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


Return to posts index


Stephen Smith
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 10:34:29 pm

sean,
I thought you where doing a day for night thing and didn't realize the footage was shot at night. I would go with what Arnie wrote. Because you are only adding the smoke (Moon never touches ruff) I would duplicate the video clip. Add a mask to where the smoke touches the roof only. Place the smoke and a cut out of the moon in-between them. Work with the black sky you already have. Then you only need to worry about a mask around the small part of the roof where the smoke touches it. Best of luck.




Stephen Smith
Utah Video Productions

Check out my Motion Training DVD

Check out my Motion Tutorials


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 18, 2010 at 10:41:32 pm

It pretty much goes by the whole roof. And I added some detail to the sky with the moon. If I could key it, I might be able to get it tighter. Was the way I was attempting the key wrong? Thanks...I


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 19, 2010 at 4:04:29 am

How'd the track points filter work out? It seems like this would be the solution to your problem.

Andy


Return to posts index


sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 19, 2010 at 5:05:30 am

Hi Andy,

Haven't got a chance to try it yet. Also I need to learn about it, because I haven't used it yet. If you have any tips please share them, but either way I'll be getting to it in the next couple of hours. Thanks again...Ian


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 19, 2010 at 6:00:11 am

Hey Andy,

I don't know if this is what you are talking about, but your post certainly made me realize that I was a moron. I just found a tutorial that shows that you can analyze the track of your mask which seems obvious to me now that I know it, I have analyzed other things, but did the tracking of the mask by hand! Every frame! It took me hours and that is why it isn't even finished yet.

I don't know if that is what you are referring to. I tried to look up the exact phrase you mentioned in the manual, but it didn't come up under "track points filter", but I am going to start over and have motion analyze it and see how it does and then go from there.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction...Ian


Return to posts index

Stephen Smith
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 19, 2010 at 4:15:29 pm

It is not a filter, it is a behavior. Go to Add Behavior, Shape, Track Points. If you are on Motion 3 it won't be in the manual, it will be in the supplemental manual. I have a great tutorial on it in my Moving with Motion training DVD. Take a look at the Moving with Motion Commercial, there is a clip with a Mountain and I place a graphic behind it. That is the Track Points behavior and I cover it very thoroughly plus a lot more. Best of luck.




Stephen Smith
Utah Video Productions

Check out my Motion Training DVD

Check out my Motion Tutorials


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 19, 2010 at 4:22:13 pm

Yeah, sorry sean, I didn't mean to call it a filter. Wasn't paying attention to my syntax. Stephen is right. It's the behavior in the shape section.

Andy


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 20, 2010 at 6:56:23 am

Hi Andy,


An update to my issue. I tried the shape track motion tool and it works for part of the shot, but as the camera turns it's as if the mat is pushing against the right side of the frame and and by the end of the shot the whole shape is a mangled mess. If there were a way to let it push the excess mat out of the frame where the rest of the building would be if he frame were continuous, it would work, but I can't find a way to do that.

This shot is driving me a bit nuts and am not sure if I am going to be able to make it work or not with the tools at my disposal.

Let me know if you come up with something brilliant. Thanks...Ian


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 20, 2010 at 6:57:17 am

Hi Andy,


An update to my issue. I tried the shape track motion tool and it works for part of the shot, but as the camera turns it's as if the mat is pushing against the right side of the frame and and by the end of the shot the whole shape is a mangled mess. If there were a way to let the tracker push the excess mat out of the frame where the rest of the building would be if the frame were continuous, it would work, but I can't find a way to do that.

This shot is driving me a bit nuts and am not sure if I am going to be able to make it work or not with the tools at my disposal.

Let me know if you come up with something brilliant. Thanks...Ian


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 20, 2010 at 7:44:17 am

Well, there's no magic bullet for this shot. Use the track points filter to get you most of the way, and hand-roto the last frames. At least track points will save you some time.

Look at the bright side: At least you're roto'ing a house with sharp angles. That cuts way down on the number of mask points you need.

Andy


Return to posts index

sean lloyd
Re: Moving Mat Issue
on Mar 20, 2010 at 7:53:21 am

Of course you are right. I am giving myself until Sunday to complete this shot, if I can't do it by then then I have to throw my hands in the air. Thanks for your help...Ian


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]