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logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion

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Matt Campbell
logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 4:40:27 pm

I have an Illustrator file in RGB with a specific CMYK PMS blue that has equivalent RGB values as such: R-0, G-71, B-133. That color shows up in Motion as R-41, G-75, B-135. I can't figure out why there is a color shift. I need that specific Blue from Illustrator as its specified by the clients logo. Does anyone know why there is a color shift? The blue shows up very muted and flat. And/or how to fix it?

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 7:54:20 pm

Can you post the file?

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 8:17:25 pm

Sure.

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 8:27:33 pm

Not sure if I uploaded this correctly the 1st time. So I tried it again. I guess I'm supposed to post the link to it?

491_creativecowtest.zip

Hope this works

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 9:38:10 pm

Looks like a conversion issue before getting to Motion - in Illustrator, the colors are Panatone, you'd need to covert everything to RGB before brining into Motion...I generally don't work in CMYK so I may be missing something...

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 9:41:50 pm

First off, thanks for the response. I've been testing and troubleshooting here myself. the AI file is RGB and I created new Pantone color swatches in RGB and re-filled my logo. I then updated the Motion file and the colors appear correct now but the numbers, althought different from before, still don't match up. I'll keep trying things out. Thanks again.

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 9:48:16 pm

How are you evaluating the RGB numbers in Motion? There are two ways:

1) Right-click in the area above the Layers tab of the Project Pane and select Colors - now anything you mouse over will show the RBG values

2) Bring up the OSX Color Picker (for example, by making a new shape and choosing a color) and then using the magnifying glass

You will see you get very different values with each of these approaches - I believe the built-in Motion sampling is more accurate.

Btw, how do you tell your Illustrator file is RGB? When I go under the View menu, the Proof Setup is set to Working CMYK.

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 10:03:07 pm

1.) i sampled the blue color from the logo with the eye dropper in the shape tab. thus giving me the same fill. but those numbers are not the same as the ones in AI. 0, 71, 135 shows up as 32, 69, 132. Those are the moused over values from the above the project pane.

2.) tried this too. i give the new shape the proper values of 0 71 135 from the OSX picker and it doesn't match the logo.

I can't figure out how I'm to get the logo to match the background.

regarding the RGB set up. I used the HDTV 1280 preset and went from there. Under doc color mode, in the file menu. I've changed the proof set up under the view menu as well, to view it in MAC RGB.

I've also tried creating new plain RGB swatches in AI. still doesn't match the motion color. very odd.

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 10:04:37 pm

Do you know to get a proper conversion from AI to Motion? What should my AI logos be set up as in order to get the same values in Motion?

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 18, 2010 at 10:40:49 pm

I got the background to exactly match the arrow (the arrow disappears) just by sampling, even though the Colors readout shows different values.

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 19, 2010 at 1:59:33 pm

My apologies Mark, maybe I wasn't clear in my question or description. I was also able to get the background to match by sampling as well but my problem is I need those colors to be accurate, value wise. There is a visible difference in the 2 files. I know my monitors and playback monitor need to be accurate and calibrated but that still doesn't explain why the RGB values are different.

I just don't understand why those colors shift when imported into motion. Do other programs have issues like this? i.e. After Effects, FCP, etc... How would a big production studio or post house handle this?

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 23, 2010 at 1:01:32 am

Matt,

I did a test - I create a new Illustrator doc (CS4) - made some text, gave it color (did one all RGB=127, one R=127, G/B=0, and one a random color), save them as .ai, imported into Motion, and checked the color in both the Color controls at the top left of the Canvas and in the color picker (by making a shape and select a color well in the HUD to bring up the OSX Color PIcker). In all cases, the color numbers matched perfectly. When I changed the shape color to match the grey .ai file, it matched exactly.

However - when I changed shape color to match either of the other .ai files that weren't neutral gray, the shape color was slightly different from the .ai file - the RGB numbers in the color picker said it was exactly the same, but the RGB numbers in the Color controls tell the real story - the RGB values were slightly shifted. Quite disturbing! However, I did find a fix - if you deselect the shape, then reselect it, and again click the color swatch in the HUD, the OSX Color Picker values will update to match the Color controls in the Canvas - you can then type in the correct values, and your shape color will match your .ai color.

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 23, 2010 at 11:18:22 pm

Here, I've made a video quick tip to explain how to deal with this issue:







--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 25, 2010 at 3:31:26 pm

Thanks Mark. That post and video is awesome and helps a great deal. But one problem I'm still having is that the colors do not transfer from AI to Motion. The AI color reads as 0, 71, 135. But Motion is giving me a read out of 41, 79, 135. Its not bring the AI colors in correctly.

Did you get my test files? I understand your process in MOTN of drawing a new shape and getting that color to match. But what about MOTN not even brining in the right color from AI to begin with. I've tried creating a new AI doc and bringing my logo. Changing the spot color to RGB builds and still no luck. MOTN still interprets the color wrong. I can't figure this out.

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 25, 2010 at 3:35:48 pm

Matt, when I brought in Illustrator artwork, the colors matched exactly, as you can see in the video. There must be something about your file that's causing the issue - try with a fresh Illustrator file and just add a shape or text like I did and see if it works correctly as a test. I was using CS4 and Motion 4, let me know what you are using.

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 25, 2010 at 3:40:53 pm

Thanks. I'll try that. I'm on CS3 and Motion 3. Upgrades are coming my way soon. Hoo-ray!

One thing it could be is that all our clients logos come from the as print ready files. Meaning CMYK or spot colors. I understand the color process very well, as my background is print and publishing. So with those files, I've tried converting them to the RGB equivalent and basically re-coloring the logos to RGB for use in MOTN.

I'll run a few more test like you said and let you know where I net out. Thanks again. Heck, I'll even try bring in the original CMYK file and see what I get.

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Matt Campbell
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 25, 2010 at 3:56:48 pm

Mark just ran a test as you suggested. I pretty much re-created your video. Worked like charm! So, I then tried it again with my clients logo. Didn't work the first time, but on the second go, the color readouts from AI match MOTNs. The blues came in as 0, 71, 133 and MOTN matched that. There must be something with the spot colors, CMYK to RGB conversion or something.

One thing I did differently this time was saving my AI files with embedded ICC profiles. That might have done it because we get all our Eizo displays calibrated and profiles set up for print work. I need to get out of that world and back to the RGB side of things. I'll have to switch my working spaces for CS3 suite back to RGB when working with video and CMYK for print.

Thanks for your help. You are the MOTN master!

OS 10.5.5, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 9 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card


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Mark Spencer
Re: logo colors don't match: Illustrator & Motion
on Jan 25, 2010 at 4:20:36 pm

Hey, that's great - glad you found a way to make it work.

--
Mark Spencer
Freelance Producer/Editor/Motion Graphics Artist
Apple-certified Master Trainer
Author, Motion 4 from Peachpit Press
http://www.applemotion.net


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