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New but hey - this software needs some tweaks

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John Mitchell
New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 6, 2009 at 4:16:05 am

I'm really new to Motion, but quite experienced with AE. I must say at this point I find it limiting but it could just be my lack of knowledge.

So can someone confirm these things I've discovered:

Motion only supports one composition per project?
You can't change the framerate on an existing motion project? I've seen one workaround here with templates..
You can't re-interpret the frame rate in other applications (eg Compressor or Quicktime)
Motion crashes a lot (I was really surprised at this, but this is a octo mac, completely up to date and I've crashed it at least 10 times and used it for about 8 hours in total) - I've sent reports to Apple but get no feedback on solutions.

I reckon the main ones are supporting more than one comp per project and changing frame rate - I'm sure the crashing (for instance when I went to open the help file) will hopefully be solved as the software matures. But it can be very annoying. Reminds me of the early days of Boris RED...


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chris gormlie
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 6, 2009 at 11:01:46 am

I've never thought of motion as an alternative or replacement to AE. I use both frequently and both excel in their own way.

Motion is integrated into FCP in a way that AE cannot. As a tool it is perfect for templates/dropzones and using right in the FCP timeline. It is also the tool I will jump into for quick and simple motion graphics. It's replicator function for example is much more manageable than AE's options.

I will use AE for the more complex jobs especially anything that dictates a lot of pre-comping or close-contact with 3DS or C4D. I also prefer it for composting work.

I've not encountered many crashing issues with Motion, certainly not to the extent to which you seem to be suffering.

As I say, in my opinion they are not tools to be seen as alternatives, but complimentary to each other.





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david bogie
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 6, 2009 at 5:36:29 pm

John,

You will never hear from Apple.
Crashing in Motion can be traced to several things and you have provided no information that might help us debug that with you.

Open the manual, do the tutorials, look all over the Net for Motion help sites and advanced tutorials, and search for "comparing After Effects and Motion." It's a popular (and largely pointless) discussion topic because Motion will never replace After Effects any more than Xcel will ever replace Word.

If you use FCP, you will want to become fluent with Motion for certain things. But if you enjoy using After Effects, you may never learn to like Motion. I certainly don't and I've been trying to get some love for Motion for many years.

bogiesan



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Stephen Smith
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 6, 2009 at 6:20:44 pm

[John] Motion only supports one composition per project?

Motion treats a group like AE does pre-comp. You can ad lots of groups to a project.




Stephen Smith
Lone Peak Productions

Check out my DVD Money Making Graphics & Effects for Final Cut Studio 2


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John Mitchell
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 7, 2009 at 1:21:39 am

Not sure about groups - that really does come down to not knowing the software well enough. Still I can't understand the lack of support for multiple timelines - just seems basic to me. I was trying to do something simple which was the same project with a different text element in each one (35 of them). Because it was based on an 30fps HD template and my final output was 4x3 cropped PAL I ended up saving the project each time with the different text element, renaming them as .movs and bringing them into AE to render.
I'm interested in what approach others might have taken to the above job remembering the final target is Avid and not FCP.

The only crash I got yesterday was accessing the help file (which incidentally is so basic as to be almost useless. For example I tried to search for frame rate and fps and got nothing!) and I got another one when I opened one of my templates - I think I might have a couple of projects open at the same time and not realised it. Anyway the screen went white in the viewer area and the program crashed.

Previously when modifying a template I got lots of crashes - couldn't tell you now what I was specifically doing at the time, sorry.

BTW I never imagined Motion as a replacement for AE, same as I never see BorisRED as a replacement for AE, just programs to help. But IMO Motion lacks some basic functionality like changing frame rates on projects, and supporting multiple timelines. Motion has some nice templates too - not too cheesy :)







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Arnie Schlissel
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 7, 2009 at 3:01:17 am

[John Mitchell] "Still I can't understand the lack of support for multiple timelines - just seems basic to me."

You can open multiple Motion projects, each it's own timeline. You can copy & paste between the projects (try that in AE!).

[John Mitchell] "Not sure about groups - that really does come down to not knowing the software well enough."

Lean about groups, or you will never be able to do anything interesting in Motion. If you understand precomposing in AE, you will understand groups. Motion's grouping is much more elegant, refined, straightforward & powerful than AE's precomposing.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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John Mitchell
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 7, 2009 at 3:47:00 am

Thanks Arnie - kinda misses the point though. If you try opening 30 projects in Motion see what happens. Then try to track which one your in and copying and pasting. Then try adding everything to one render queue with the same setttings.

I had to redo all my AE stuff that I did yesterday because it was corrupted (not sure why, there were weird things going on like yellow frames). So I bit the bullet and put the thrity odd motion projects into compressor to render them all out in HD and convert them to 4x3 cropped SD later in AE.

What a nightmare - Apart from being unbelievabley slow to work with (click and wait.....)Compressor must have crashed a dozen times (including those weird yellow half frames at times), when trying to add settings to multiple files. So I started adding one by one and saving - first settings then destinations. After another couple of crashes I at least got it programmed and rendering.

Can't say I have a lot of love for Apple at the moment..



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Noah Kadner
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 7, 2009 at 7:18:36 am

So why not just stick with AE? If you do good work with a tool, no one is going to force you to try another. Anyone who knows both AE and Motion will tell you neither is the other and you can easily make your way using a combination of the two or just one depending on what is is you're doing.

Noah

Writing RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Lens Adapter Guidebook, Sony EX1 Guidebook,
DVD Studio Pro and How to Light Interviews.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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walter biscardi
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 7, 2009 at 11:41:56 am

[Noah Kadner] "So why not just stick with AE? If you do good work with a tool, no one is going to force you to try another. Anyone who knows both AE and Motion will tell you neither is the other and you can easily make your way using a combination of the two or just one depending on what is is you're doing."

This is precisely what we do here. I've been using After Effects since it was CoSA and Motion is a great complement to AE. Certainly does not replace it, nor is it fully designed to replace it. Shake would be the AE replacement.

I tend to do a lot of titles, particles and quick motion type stuff in Motion and the more complex stuff in AE.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
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John Mitchell
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 8, 2009 at 1:45:36 am

Walter - that would be exactly my plan.



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John Mitchell
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 8, 2009 at 1:43:48 am

Noah "So why not just stick with AE? If you do good work with a tool, no one is going to force you to try another. Anyone who knows both AE and Motion will tell you neither is the other and you can easily make your way using a combination of the two or just one depending on what is is you're doing."

Noah - I never said they were the same program. I'm forced to use Motion as this job was started in another studio and the templates must match.

Even if I wasn't I don't dislike what Motion does and I can appreciate it has a place within my workflow. I'm looking for constructive suggestions on how to improve my workflow. I had 30 odd templated graphics to do that began life in the wrong format (16x9 HD) and wrong frame rate. My question was why can't I change these things easily in Motion and how do others address shortcomings like the need to render out multiple individual timelines. Some people have said investigate groups and I'll definitely do that, I don't need to be spoon fed all the way.

However I don't think suggesting that I abandon a program because I know AE is very constructive. I'm sure my first trips into AE were similarly daunting.



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Stephen Smith
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 8, 2009 at 2:42:46 pm

[John] I had 30 odd templated graphics to do that began life in the wrong format (16x9 HD) and wrong frame rate.

Create a new project with the proper size and frame rate. Open the project with the wrong frame rate and size, open up the Project Pane or Timeline, drag it's canvas to the right. Select your content and drag it over to the new project with the proper settings. You may have to adjust the scale of the Main group to get it to fit the right canvas size depending on how drastically different the to projects are.




Stephen Smith
Lone Peak Productions

Check out the TV Show Open I did.


Check out my DVD Money Making Graphics & Effects for Final Cut Studio 2


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John Mitchell
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 9, 2009 at 12:58:25 am

Thanks for ths Stephen - I will give it a go. Wish I had two monitors for this...(most of my systems have two but the Mac only has one.)

As I have many more of these projects being able to adjust the template will be a big help. Still think it is a copnvoluted way of doing things that should be as simple as accessing the project preferences...

BTW - any tips on batch rendering? My experience with Motion project files interacting with Compressor was not good.



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Stephen Smith
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 9, 2009 at 3:58:12 pm

John,
Motion, just like Final Cut Pro can't change the frame rate once you start working with media. However, you can bring in a clip shot at any frame rate. Hence the solution your not to happy with. As for doing a Batch Export I think the only way is to do it in Compressor. If you dislike Compressor you could always import each project into different FCP sequences and do a Batch Export out of FCP. Hope this helps.




Stephen Smith
Lone Peak Productions

Check out the TV Show Open I did.


Check out my DVD Money Making Graphics & Effects for Final Cut Studio 2


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John Mitchell
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 13, 2009 at 8:05:09 am

Thanks again Stephen.

I like Compressor :) I just don't like the fact that my Motion projects kept crashing it! (Quartz plug in I think)

And I'm not unhappy with the solution (I'm actually glad for any solution) - so thankyou.

Probably at the heart of all these problems is Quicktime - which I guess is being used as the interpreter for the Motion project within Compressor.

Perhaops if someone went through my workflow and told me why I was crashing and a way around it it might help...

My workflow was to drag the 35 motion projects into Compressor. I then highlighted all the individual source files and went to add a destination - this crashed Compressor after about 2 - 3 minutes. So I tried adding a custom preset to every file - XDCAM, native to the original Motion file for frame rate and raster. That crashed Compressor. So eventually I had to add a destination and preset individually to each source file. This took a while because everytime I highlighted a source file or dragged anything to it there was a noticeable delay. I saved each time and eventually got there with only one more crash.

Is there a better way and can anyone explain why it kept crashing with multiple projects?

This is the workflow I'd like to adopt to batch out Motion projects...



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david bogie
Re: New but hey - must be Quicktime!
on Jul 14, 2009 at 9:17:32 pm

[John Mitchell] "Probably at the heart of all these problems is Quicktime "

That MUST be it.

bogiesan



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Torben Suhrke
Re: New but hey - this software needs some tweaks
on Jul 21, 2009 at 5:45:32 pm

Hey John,

maybe this tip helps:
You're right Compressor gets really unresponsive when you add so many projects to a batch.
So it's best not to change anything once you dropped your files into Compressor. You can achieve this by editing your desired preset and a destination setting beforehand. Then go to preferences and set your preset and destination you just set up to be the defaults. If you then drop your files they already have the right preset and destination.

It might also help to close the preview window before dropping the files, as it eats up some resources, too.

Best regards,
Torben


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