FORUMS: list search recent posts

HEEEELP! How much can motion handle

COW Forums : Apple Motion

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Nick Franco
HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 25, 2007 at 10:08:34 am

Hi Guys

just to get tech system spec out of the way i have a Mac Pro Quad with 5 gig of Ram, ATI X1900 XT graphics card, and Kona LHE with a 4.5 TB sonnet tempo zero raided e sata raid array (10 500gig drives). and it's just had a clean install (last night)

i think i have got myself in a hole. i may have been a bit ambitious i've created 3D channel 4 logo made up of video screens approx 45 steams of video. this is all in a 3D environment.

i would like the camera to fly through the logo.

But Motion is running dog slow (imagine a dog with one leg climbing a mounting) is there any thing i could do to make it run faster.

i was thinking of rendering out elements of the logo and bringing it back in so i could reduce the 45 streams to say 10 or 6 streams and then putting it all back together.

or possibly i could max out the ram in the Mac but i didn't think Motion needed more than 4 gig of ram??

any help you guys could offer would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Nick


Return to posts index

Lee Berger
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 25, 2007 at 10:35:18 am

Motion's real time playback relies on the GPU (Graphic Processing Unit) in your ATI graphics card. The better the card, the more real time playback. You can improve the playback with some sacrifice in image quality, by setting Render Quality in the View Menu to Draft. However with that may layers you might want to export the logo and then do the camera move.

Lee Berger
http://www.leebergermedia.com


Return to posts index

Nick Franco
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 25, 2007 at 11:13:47 am

Thanks lee

i've tried reducing the image quality to no avail. the problem with exporting this is that once it's rendererd i don't think i can use it as 3D, it will become 2D?

i know that Motion Caches ram. Would maxing out my ram help it run faster.

the graphics card i have is only 10% slower than the quatro so i don't think i can do anything else.

any thoughts?

Thanks again

Nick


Return to posts index


Lee Berger
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 25, 2007 at 12:33:24 pm

Nick,
Your right, it would loose the 3-D orientation of the individual groups if you rendered. Did you try reducing the resolution as well from Full to Half, Third or Quarter? I don't believe that Motion caches its playback to Ram as in Boris or AE so I don't think more RAM would help. I may be wrong on that. Perhaps someone else knows more about Motion and RAM. It appears that you have ATI's second fastest card (the X1900 XTX seems only slightly faster).

Lee Berger
http://www.leebergermedia.com


Return to posts index

Lee Berger
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 25, 2007 at 12:50:15 pm

One other thing I forgot is that you should look at the pixel size of the elements in your project. If they are significantly larger than your output, you may want to scale them down and save GPU processing. Just a thought.

Lee Berger
http://www.leebergermedia.com


Return to posts index

specialcase
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 25, 2007 at 8:53:48 pm

Hey Nick,

All of Lee's suggestions are excellent, especially the one about prepping your source media to make sure it's around the same size as you want it to appear onscreen.

As for the performance: you mentioned 40+ video clips that comprise the logo. Motion doesn't stream like FCP; it caches the source media into RAM and then sends it lickety-split to the GPU and screen. If you've got 40+ SD-or-higer video clips, that's a lot of footage to cache. Most likely, Motion is running out of system memory space and so has to constantly toss frames and read new ones from disk. If it's hitting your disk on a regular basis, that will always slow things down.

Your project sounds pretty macho!


Return to posts index


Lee Berger
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 26, 2007 at 12:25:52 am

Specialcase,
Could Nick benefit from more RAM? What role does the video ram on his graphics card play? Could it be that his project might be too macho for Motion?

Lee Berger
http://www.leebergermedia.com


Return to posts index

specialcase
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 26, 2007 at 4:12:47 am

Heya,

As I understand it, media is first cached in system RAM, then sent to the GPU when needed. Motion will try to cache every frame it encounters in the system RAM, but the GPU RAM is more likely to be turning over. Sending from system RAM to the GPU is fast.

As for whether more system RAM would help: well, he's already got 5GB, which is pretty boffo. The issue is the scope of media he described. Let's assume his video sources are NTSC SD, at 720x486. That means that each frame takes up around 1MB of memory (720x486x3). Multiply that times 45 different clips and you're talking 1.3GB for every 30 frames. As you can see, he's bound to run out of system RAM pretty quick, at that rate. Which means Motion will have to drop not-in-use frames out of cache (i.e. not the frame you're currently on) and reload them from disk, later. And that's where the slowdown happens.

The thing is, any app will balk at the kind of project he describes. You can get the work done, it just won't be playing back real quick. This is where project optimization comes in: pre-rendering certain elements, resizing source media, etc. Even a $700/hr Flame operator has his/her henchmen prep all their elements before a client session, so as to make it all seem like magic :)


Return to posts index

Nick Franco
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 26, 2007 at 9:02:07 am

Hi Guys

thanks for your words of wisdom. i've been doing some home work and am a little worried. i actually have 120 streems of video.

i'v now captured some footage at pro ress 422 HQ as you've suggested and i'll swap out the footage that will become full screen with a higher ress to maintain the quality.

i'm a little scared that when it comes to render out it may fall over (it's happend once already.

i could replace some of the footage with stills when they are not in shot. i need high quality as this will be progected on a cimema screen.

i dont think that motion can work in proxies. i was toying with the idea of going back to afteraffects or nuke?

really good advise from you all. am i just going to be in for trouble?

thanks again guys

Nick


Return to posts index


Nick Franco
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 26, 2007 at 9:05:10 am

one mor thing i will try and scal the pixel size down as well
i'll keep you posted

Thanks

Nick


Return to posts index

Nick Franco
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 26, 2007 at 9:26:16 am

one other thing apparently applications on tiger can only use up to 4 gig of ram so i don't think ram is the answer.

i think planning the project out in fine detail is the only way.

doe's motion use proxies or wire frame?

i does'nt look like it. i may have no choice but to swap to AE or Nuke if my planing doesn't work.

Nick


Return to posts index

Margus
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 27, 2007 at 10:19:23 am

Hi.

I'd try to make some elements not visible when not seen on the
camera. It deffinetly have helped me with combustion as it uses ram pretty much the same way. So if you make layers not visible if they are longer in time than the whole clip or they do not show at that current time then you might get more done even wit little ram.


--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


Return to posts index


Nick Franco
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 27, 2007 at 2:54:36 pm

Thanks margus

we are actualy in the process of trying this out. i still have a problem of getimg the project renderd. when i send it to compressor it hangs and then falls over.

i've now reinstalled the system 3 times.

i've managed to get compresser to cluster which on every other project i have works a dream but this one is as slow as a snail.

you guys are life savers

thanks

Nick


Return to posts index

specialcase
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 27, 2007 at 3:55:05 pm

Heya,

Due to the GPU-rendered nature of Motion, you can't distribute the jobs to multiple machines using Compressor.


Return to posts index

Nick Franco
Re: HEEEELP! How much can motion handle
on Aug 27, 2007 at 5:54:11 pm

what motion has to render on the graphics card to oput to PAL or NTSC?
are there any graphics cards with 5 gig of cash?

i hope i've misunderstood

Nick


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]