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Smoke 2013 trial very slow

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Duane Phipps
Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 17, 2012 at 5:45:44 am

new to smoke, looking to switch from fcpx but when running trial smoke is very slow to respond to anything i do. i love the layout but cant figure out how i can be productive with such delays. I have installed it on a 2011 macbook pro 2.2 ghz i7 17" with 4gb ram and a 2009 Macpro 8 core with 10 gig of ram and ati radeon 5770 vid card. smoke responds the same on both. I am trying to edit in 1080p with DSLR footage from Canon 5d mkii. When i setup project the only choice that seemed to fit was apple prores 422. ive switched from preview fx to realtime with no improvements. Any help would be greatly appreciated. do i need to convert footage to prores with compressor first, i certainly hope not. I love what autodesk is doing but at this price point it has to be at least as resposive as the other NLEs to be considered.

Now how in the hell did they do that?


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Hans von Sonntag
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 17, 2012 at 9:10:27 am

Canon 5D footage is VERY slow in Smoke 2012 and probably also in Smoke 2013. The codec eats tons of power because it requires a lot of decoding. For some reason Smoke has issues with this.

From time to time I have 5D footage to work with. I always transcode it to ProRes422HQ. Besides snappy behavior you don't have Resizes applied when working in 10 Bit.

Hans


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Duane Phipps
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 17, 2012 at 2:15:54 pm

ok thanks, i actually downloaded some apple prores footage to use as a test and was amazed at the difference in speed. Other apps handle 5d codec pretty well. This creates a real dilemma for me because i shoot most of my footage with 5d and 7d. id love to move to smoke but transcoding is kinda taking a step backward at this point. maybe autodesk will let me try again when i get blackmagic camera which shoots directly in smoke optimized formats.

Now how in the hell did they do that?


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Hans von Sonntag
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 17, 2012 at 3:07:21 pm

As I mentioned above (sort of) Smoke's timeline resolution does not only contain pixel resolution but also bit depth. 5D footage is 8 bit. You either edit in an 8 bit TL or you edit in a 10 bit TL and every single bit of footage will have a Resize Soft-Effect added which again creates a lot of unnecessary render time and slows things down.

IMHO 8 Bit is not an alternative in a application like Smoke .

This is what I do:

1. Rough cut (very rough, more selection of shots) in PP, R3Ds based (mostly) or anything else.

2. Export XML

3. Import XML in DaVinci

4. If meaningful perform some grading

5. Render shots to ProRes (HQ) or DPX for GS work, for instance

6. Conform the footage back in PP

7. Export an AAF

8. Conform AAF in Smoke

If you need a quick and dirty, ENG-like editing approach Smoke is the wrong tool anyway. Smoke is all about quality, give Smoke the best you can offer...

Hans


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Frederic Warren
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 17, 2012 at 4:22:49 pm

Hans already mentioned that Smoke is not currently optimized to interact very well with 5D and 7D footage.

The other issue I can highlight looking at your Hardware specs is the 4Gb of ram in the MacBook Pro. We recommend to run Smoke on a system with at least 8Gb of ram to have better performances. You should have overall better performance on your other system.

fred

Frédéric Warren

Flame / Smoke Senior User Experience Designer
Autodesk Media & Entertainment


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Duane Phipps
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 17, 2012 at 5:51:11 pm

Thanks for the quick response, I think ill transcode a project to prores and get my hands dirty.

Now how in the hell did they do that?


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Grant Kay
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 18, 2012 at 10:10:05 am

Hi

To transcode the 5D/7D media into ProRes during import, in the media hub window under the general settings, you will see a button labelled "CREATE PROJECT MEDIA". This is the same as creating optimised media in FCPX.

Now drag and drop your clips from the browser into the media library and Smoke should transcoder the footage in the background. You can click the JOBs tab to monitor the progress.

However you could still start working with the clips and smoke will use the original media until the intermediates have been made and Smoke will automatically swap them out for you.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Grant

Check out my Smoke blog at http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/discreetuk
Subscribe to my YouTube Channel - SMOKEHOWTOS
Follow me on Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/discreetuk


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Ben Rojas
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 18, 2012 at 3:18:24 pm

5D/7D as is a must, period. This needs to be sorted out because if Adobe's Mercury Playback Engine can handle it, Smoke should as well... Especially w/an Quadro card in there. 80% of the stuff shot at my facility is Canon. Transcoding, whether R3D, 5D, AVC, P2, you name it, which was S.O.P. last year, is not an option in 2012. Hell, at least back in the digitizing days I could watch the footage, take notes, etc and make use of the time. Transcoding is simply wasted time... Often, unbillable! Not only is it wasted time, but in the case of FCP, converting to ProRes actually affected color. I had no idea until a gent from the Bandito Bros pointed it out to me @ NAB. That being said, I've not seen the same as Smoke converts to DPX, it's native format. Footage looks pristine, but native in 2012, doesn't mean the same thing in 2013... Or does it? BTW, if I have to EDIT in ProRes or the like just to be able to work, we're defeating the purpose of format independence.

Now, I understand fully what Smoke can do, I've been on it since Fire. But we're not talking compositing, I would never expect to work in anything but uncompressed or minimal compression like DNxHD, ProRes. We're talking editing, which in todays world should happen in any format. If I can't get 2013 working as fast as PP, I won't add more seats in my facility. It's just that simple.

Ben Rojas
Editor|Artist|Dir. of Post Production
KSC KREATE
3850 N 28th Ter. Ste. 101
Hollywood, FL. 33020
P. 954.326.7600
F. 954.326.7766
C. 305.301.2771
E. ben.rojas@ksckreate.com
http://www.ksckreate.com


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Duane Phipps
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 18, 2012 at 10:36:09 pm

At this point I'm really just frustrated. Apple ProRes plays back well until any fx are added then I'm down to a crawl. This is on a MacPro 3,1 with 10gigs ram and radeon 5770 video card. This software has been totally unusable on my computers and i have even gone as far as updating my OS to 10.7.4 which i really didn't want to do. Is my computer too old to run this efficiently? Its an 8-core machine. If I add cc, it gives me a unrendered message even with preview fx on. I can barely place things and edit on the timeline let alone get to the real powerful features of Smoke. Whats really crazy is that I can run Shake 4.1 on both of my computers at full 1080p with lots of nodes connected including cc and blurs and everything is essentially realtime. Am I missing something. I even tried ProRes LT to no avail. Is there a way I can see if Smoke is utilizing all 8 cores.

Now how in the hell did they do that?


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Ben Rojas
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 19, 2012 at 12:50:16 am

Right there with you Duane... Same MP except running an NVidia card. I have yet to get a format to run smoothly. My frustration, I'm a Smoke guy and have been waiting for the day it would be my all-in-one solution... Not only at the office but at home too! FCP, Symphony and most recently Adobe PP are all running fine so I'm quite perplexed. I've ordered a Quadro 4K so let's see what happens.

Ben Rojas
Editor|Artist|Dir. of Post Production
KSC KREATE
3850 N 28th Ter. Ste. 101
Hollywood, FL. 33020
P. 954.326.7600
F. 954.326.7766
C. 305.301.2771
E. ben.rojas@ksckreate.com
http://www.ksckreate.com


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Ben Rojas
Re: Smoke 2013 trial very slow
on Jun 19, 2012 at 2:21:36 pm

Alright, cleaned up my Raid last night and I'm getting much better performance. Same thing happens on my 2012 sys at work, which is on fiber. Smoke wants to be fed fast and 2013 no exception.

Ben Rojas
Editor|Artist|Dir. of Post Production
KSC KREATE
3850 N 28th Ter. Ste. 101
Hollywood, FL. 33020
P. 954.326.7600
F. 954.326.7766
C. 305.301.2771
E. ben.rojas@ksckreate.com
http://www.ksckreate.com


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