FORUMS: list search recent posts

Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)

COW Forums : Autodesk Smoke

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Drew Lahat
Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on Apr 23, 2012 at 8:47:23 pm

I know from personal experience the crunch in the post business, but the current crop of products makes you think that everyone is down to one employee.

Look at the new Smoke, Adobe CS6, Scratch, FCPX... all those shiny new products feature better-than-ever integration and asset sharing - WITHIN the suite on ONE computer. Admittedly I'm still researching those new versions, but it looks like those products have zero awareness of multiple installations over a network. Avid Unity's archaic bin sharing looks cutting edge in comparison.

I know that some people out there operate as a one-man band, but no matter how good and fast your tools are, sometimes you need more than one person to wield them (I know, I'm crazy). We have an editor who edits, an assistant who organizes, and a VFX guy who's good at VFX. People specialize in their fields, and if we need more work or a faster turnaround we add more people. Is this so radical?

I'm not saying that you can't use those products in a shared environment, we all do, all the time. But when trying to decide our next steps, workflow efficiency seems stuck in 1999 - the individual pieces have vastly improved, but linking them is still a clunky headache. If you have one hero machine it doesn't matter, if you have a major operation you're fine with the management overhead (and six-figure DAM solutions), but what about the guys in the middle, the boutiques?


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on Apr 23, 2012 at 11:23:59 pm

[Drew Lahat] " no matter how good and fast your tools are, sometimes you need more than one person to wield them (I know, I'm crazy)"

Well, then. I went out to the Symphony last night, and a guy came out onto the stage and announced he was the conductor. Then he proceeded to play Beethoven's 9th, one note at a time, on all the instruments in succession. It took a long time, and it was hard to follow the melody, but hey the tickets were really cheap.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


Return to posts index

Jerry Hofmann
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on Apr 24, 2012 at 7:17:34 pm

I think Drew has a point though. It's true they don't emphasize sharing... That market is small but vocal... especially around the COW. Who does everybody vote for Avid? Really? That's the best there is? mmmm there's a product waiting.

But you also have to look at it from the manufacturer's point of view. The number of installs in multiple sharing networks is minisucule compatred to the stand alone work station numbers so development dollars are scarcer I'd think. 3 million users of NLE software and I'll bet only a few thousand multiple setups sharing etc..

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


Return to posts index


Alan Okey
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on Apr 24, 2012 at 2:52:45 pm

I can't speak for Adobe CS6, Scratch or FCPX, but Smoke comes from a very refined pedigree of products that are highly network-aware, despite the fact that Smoke 2013's promotional marketing is emphasizing the standalone capabilities of the software.


Return to posts index

David Jahns
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on May 3, 2012 at 2:14:06 am

I feel your pain Drew! We have 10 rooms, all working from a SAN - Editshare, running both Avid & FCP Legacy from the same server. We had an Avid Unity back in the day, and we'd be dead in the water without shared storage. Any of the 10 rooms can pick up the project whenever they need to - it's great.

The absolute deal-killer with us and FCP-X is the lack of shared project support. I could maybe deal with the timeline & keywording changes, but there's no way in hell any shop like ours is using FCP-X in a collaborative workflow - even with an XSAN, it's still very painful.

Premiere Pro is even much more limiting than FCP 7, as you can only have one project open at a time, so opening each other's projects and copying what you need to your project is much clunkier.

Avid is still the king of shared workflows. We're back to about 50/50 Avid/FCP, and we'll give CS6 a shot when it comes out. We also have a SMoke 2012 for finishing, but it operates on local storage. I have no idea how that would work if more of our editors want to give new Smoke a try...

David Jahns
---
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


Return to posts index

Drew Lahat
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on May 3, 2012 at 6:16:14 am

Finally, some understanding :)
David, we're basically in the same situation. Medium-sized facility, 50/50 Avid/FCP.
Alan, glad to hear Smoke has good networking support. it's then a budgetary matter whether a $3500-per-seat system can be approved for a whole facility nowadays. Still worth considering.
Jerry, I understand it when Apple exists the pro market because it is relatively minuscule, but companies like Autodesk, Avid, and Adobe should care.

I see an MC6 vs. CS6 vs. Smoke shootout coming soon...

BTW, I heard some rumors that Adobe is working on shared-workflow improvements and was giving some private demos at NAB, but was unable to find it more.


Return to posts index


Jerry Hofmann
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on May 3, 2012 at 2:17:43 pm

I think that's coming too.

Though, I'd not discount FCP X just yet. Started really badly, and was presented really in the wrong light, but I do believe Apple wants their pro's back and future updates and upgrades will point at who they are marketing to (native red support and such). So far seems to me it's not consumers. (multicam and the new keyer are examples of this) I don't think that FCP X is intended primarily for consumers. Too many things in it that a consumer wouldn't care about. Metadata handling for starters.

A sharing solution is likely on the Apple radar too.

But I can't remember a time where the NLE makers had such a war going on. Probably when Media 100 was introduced and Avid had a worthy competitor or when FCP 1 was introduced, when Media 100 and Avid lost a lot of market share. The real winners here are the users. Sharing does matter, and I'm quite confident that the Apple team is aware of this.

In Vegas last month, I spoke to a huge number of folks in the same boat as the OP here... almost to a tee, they are still running FCP 7 on towers, haven't switched, and are in a holding pattern... there's a lot of folks looking to switch (because there's no choice eventually) but they just can't decide. So they are watching FCP X, Avid, Adobe and Autodesk to see where they feel their dollars will be best spent. That situation bodes extremely well for us all actually. The NLE wars will heat up over the next year to a fever pitch! We gain a lot in situations like this normally. Can't think of a time when Apple laid out a road map for any product whatsoever. Seems to me then they are giving it their best shot to make amends with the customer base.

But all that said... it also seems to me that with all four of the majors selling software as low as they are, there's little reason not to buy it all, and run the NLE suited best for the current task at hand... All of it can be had for under $10,000. That's a shift for sure.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


Return to posts index

David Jahns
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on May 3, 2012 at 2:53:09 pm

Hi Drew.

We recently got a Smoke system, and while the new editing interface is infinitely more approachable, I have a feeling Smoke is not going to be for everyone. Especially if you are doing creative cut offline editing, and finishing elsewhere. We're about 50/50 in that regard. Our top-tier national spots will go to LA for color/mix/finish, but mid-tier & low budget work stays in house, and I do the finishing, mostly in Smoke nowadays.

I just started a blog you may find interesting - fcp2smoke.com

Jerry - while I think there is much to like about the FCP-X re-think, the choice to go with a database structure rather than a document-style structure will make it almost impossible to use in a collaborative Avid-Unity style shared workflow. We will often have 2 editors, an assistant, a MoGrf artist, and sound designer all working on the same project, using the same media & opening each other's bins/projects. That's possible because it's just like opening word documents - you can open each other's files but only one can have write access at a time. For multiple users to have access to the same database, you need a database server. Hmm, what could FCP user? They would need something like... a new incarnation of Final Cut Server? Call me skeptical about that one...

David Jahns
---
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


Return to posts index

Hans von Sonntag
Re: Do all post houses have 1 employee? (Shared workflows)
on May 4, 2012 at 10:33:02 am

Smoke's libraries are accessible by other Smoke seats and to a certain extend by Flame. This way you can have one hero suite and another seat to feed the boss. Or you can have access to typical assets such as logo animations that different seats need daily and must be modified, so you want them "open".

The low price point of the 2013 version of Smoke on Mac will help in this regard. Only the necessary staff doesn't grow on trees. Smoke 2013 won't flatten the steep learning curve much.

Hans


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]