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Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?

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Gabriele Turchi
Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 7:18:38 am

i was watching some tutorials and i have just realized that smoke have the source and record viewer ...

i am wondering : does anyone actually edit in smoke ? it is a crazy idea ?
off course would be an expansive editor , but i was thinking that in a 1 man show (from edit to finish ) would not be better editing in a scenario where you have all the imaginable tools to be creative while editing ?

or the editor is not as comfortable as FCP or media composer would Be ?

thanks

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX285
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma


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robert coulin
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 9:14:24 am

hi,

smoke is absolutely a great editor -
although dedicated systems like mediacomposer & fcp will do better in this respect ...

robert

robert coulin
http://www.dreamwalks.com


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Grant Kay
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 9:34:09 am

Hi,

Smoke is first and foremost an editor.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with editing in Smoke.

Some people working on other editing apps have made a completely switch to Smoke while others just feel comfortable using what they have to edit and finish in Smoke.

If you just had Smoke and nothing else as your investment, you should be fine.

Regards
Grant

Check out my Smoke blog at http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/discreetuk
Subscribe to my YouTube Channel - SMOKEHOWTOS
Follow me on Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/discreetuk


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Brian Mulligan
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 1:06:09 pm

I personally edit everything in Smoke. Broadcast Promos and Commercials from import to export. I have even done some long form and more creative editorial. Smoke is a great system because "it's all there"

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 3:52:06 pm

very very interesting ...

I am a colorist , i own couple of systems (Full Davinci setup and Scratch Finishing ) Davinci is a great color corrector (but only that ) scratch is a bit of hybrid , but not an editor for sure , and compositing /finishing wise it does miss many things

I " always " wanted to approach smoke , now have a personal project (very important to me ) coming that i will be edit/grade/finish myself and i am really wondering if i should finally make the jump to smoke , so i could edit and at the same time develop sophisticated ideas in therms of compositing , 3D relighting etc...

Few concerns i have for SMOKE as an editor :

-screening the footage : adding marks to shots (while screening )?

-create sub clip ? in avid while screening i really like to create sub clips in new bins (IN/OUT in the source area and drag in a new bin (so easily and quickly i have selected portions of the shots available for later )

-multiple frame rates material in the same timeline ? does smoke playback at the same speed no matter what is the source fps of the footage (like scratch and davinci?) ...avid apply retime to adapt the speed of the shot to the speed of the timeline ...

thanks !

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX285
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma


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Brian Mulligan
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 6:11:06 pm

[Gabriele Turchi] "Few concerns i have for SMOKE as an editor :

-screening the footage : adding marks to shots (while screening )?
YES.. EASILY DONE.

-create sub clip ? in avid while screening i really like to create sub clips in new bins (IN/OUT in the source area and drag in a new bin (so easily and quickly i have selected portions of the shots available for later )
YES. EASILY DONE.

-multiple frame rates material in the same timeline ? does smoke playback at the same speed no matter what is the source fps of the footage (like scratch and davinci?) ...avid apply retime to adapt the speed of the shot to the speed of the timeline ..."


A SOFT TW EFFECT WILL RETIME THE FOOTAGE TO THE SEQUENCE SETTINGS.
IT WILL PLAYBACK THE SOURCE CLIP AT NATIVE SPEED.

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 6:55:12 pm

wow ...

ps: are there any very intensive tutorial around (even for purchase ) focused on editing in SMOKE ??

there is a lot around about compositing , grading etc...but not sure about editing , the series of tutorials from grant about smoke for FCP user are cool and got my attention of smoke as an editor , but i guess i hope to have more extensive on tutorial focused on editing somewhere ...

thanks

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX285
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma


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robert coulin
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 5, 2012 at 7:04:54 pm

hi,

" .... so i could edit and at the same time develop sophisticated ideas in therms of compositing , 3D relighting etc... "

if this is your purpose, then there is no better system than smoke i would say!
what i mentioned in my previous post was related to "hardcore editing" - which would definitely need additional systems for continuing the job.

i hope this makes sense ;-)

robert

robert coulin
http://www.dreamwalks.com


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Hans von Sonntag
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 6, 2012 at 8:14:29 am

Gabriele,

I'm a video junkie, I write, shoot and edit most of my projects by myself. I find it important to have all the creative tools at my own fingertips - from the pen to camera, to editing, grading and finishing.

That has been my workflow: shooting, editing (FCP), grading (SpeedGrade), reconforming to FCP, compositing (Shake) and finishing the whole stuff in FCP with all the annoyance FCP can give you, foremost the infamous gamma shift.

I have done many TVC that ended up on Flame, hence I know quite well what Discreet systems can do to your projects. When I heard that Smoke is available on the Mac I instantly bought a licenses, didn't even try it before - and never looked back.

This is now my workflow: Shoot, transcode, Smoke - done.

Smoke's only downside as an editor is that all footage should match the projects resolution, including bit-depth. If not, a resize soft-effect will be added that has to be rendered all the time - a real show-stopper.

Smoke takes some time to learn. Editing is neither like FCP, nor like Avid - it's Autodesk's French-Canada style. I'm used to it now and like it - and it's fast.

The biggest friend when editing in Smoke is the LOCK button. It's the most used button in Smoke and has the most uncomfortable short-cut. I haven't found a way to create a new shortcut - if someone could point me to a comfortable solution I'd be happy to know.

Lastly a word to Smoke's conforming and sound design capabilities. I don't know how easily Smoke translates an Avid AAF but FCPs XML is so easy to conform that you hardly believe that. However, there is one rule: consolidate all footage to a new folder and place the XML in this folder.

Now sound. Smoke can edit sound like any other editor. It has good soundFX tools that surpass all what FCP offers. Sound mixing in Smoke is very easy and can be done very fast. I do all my sound design in Smoke. If you need assistance by WAVE plugins you can export an OMF and open it on the same machine in Logic for further tweaking. Please check the routing. All inputs must be assigned to channel 1& 2 on the output mixer for stereo work.

If your lose Audio in Smoke step into the ViodeIO and restart the AJA card by starting the ingesting module and closing it.

Give Smoke and yourself an extended testing period. In the beginning it maybe hard but then it's a revelation, seriously.

Hans


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robert coulin
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 6, 2012 at 9:23:35 am

hi,

great statement !!

just curious - which "LOCK" are you referring to? - the trim lock ? -

robert

robert coulin
http://www.dreamwalks.com


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Hans von Sonntag
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 6, 2012 at 10:00:45 am

"....the trim lock ?"

Yes.

Most editor who are used to FCP move clips in the timeline gesturally. This is an intuitive and quick way to edit. When you move a clip in Smoke you have to press Lock to make sure that the In and Out of the clip is not altered by the umbers of frames you move the clip. I use the Trim Lock button an few hundred times when in an editing session. Like F-drag it would be great if there were a Z-Lock for instance. That would speed up editing in Smoke tenfold.

Hans


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robert coulin
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 6, 2012 at 12:53:44 pm

agreed - for this kind of workflow it would be best to have a modifier key, instead of a switch ...
i personally would even want to have "slide" mode (lock on) when clicking in the middle of a clip (double arrow) - i guess i have never used this "autotrimming of 2 cuts", which it is, when lock off ...
but maybe thats just me -
in all, although trimming in smoke is fine & all options are available (pretty much), it could need 1 or 2 finetunings.

robert

robert coulin
http://www.dreamwalks.com


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robert coulin
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 8, 2012 at 1:24:23 pm

hi,

" ... The biggest friend when editing in Smoke is the LOCK button. It's the most used button in Smoke and has the most uncomfortable short-cut. I haven't found a way to create a new shortcut - if someone could point me to a comfortable solution I'd be happy to know. ..."

the closest i got is to assign it to the upper pen button (which is hardly used elsewhere in the app)
although it is still just a switch.
ideally (as you mention) it would be a modifier ...

robert

robert coulin
http://www.dreamwalks.com


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Apr 7, 2012 at 7:19:35 pm

[Hans von Sonntag] "Most editor who are used to FCP move clips in the timeline gesturally."

Not me. I use Roll/Ripple, Slip/Slide, Ripple Delete, Ripple Cut and Insert Paste a lot. All from keyboard.


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harrison Schaaf
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Jul 30, 2013 at 5:58:45 am

@Michael Aranyshev, @Hans von Sonntag

Desperately looking for the equivalent of ripple-cut and ripple-paste in Smoke. Like Michael, I'm used to doing this all from the keyboard. Any ideas?


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Rogan Roberts
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on May 24, 2012 at 3:15:00 pm

Hi Grant,

In regards to your post about cutting on Smoke, would you recommend cutting a feature on Smoke? I'm thinking it may work out faster and cheaper then say Avid or FCP and then going through Smoke for grading...Just cut the whole thing and grade as you go?

Cheers - Rogan


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moody glasgow
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 7, 2012 at 8:04:48 pm

Before I worked on the Smoke, I used to edit on an AVID. I would say the Smoke is a very capable editor. From time to time I have to make tweaks to someone elses edit, and it is pretty painless to do in the Smoke.
I haven't actually had to cut anything from start to finish in the Smoke, but I am confident that I could do it, and do it quickly.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame
http://www.thereelthinginc.com


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David Jahns
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55:48 pm

As a recent Smoke Mac user, I thought I'd offer my opinion...

I'm in a shop with 8 full time editors, and now one Smoke system. Some of our editors have wondered about using Smoke as an edit tool, rather than just finishing.

Coming from Avid, then FCS background, I've been using Smoke for finishing tasks for a few months now, and my first thought was that, "Wow this is powerful as finishing tool (I love having everything in one tool - except planar tracking - maybe in Smoke 2013!), but it would be a nightmare to edit with."

But after a few months, I could see how someone COULD get used to editing in it (although I'm nowhere near that yet), and for certain jobs that are more FX driven, it seems like it could be better to have everything all in one system.

But for out typical National TV commercial offline/online job, with assistants handling TONS of footage to sort through & organize, I can't imagine it being a better offline editing experience than an Avid (or even FCP.)

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe once you get the workflow & Autodesk way of thinking down to muscle memory, maybe it would be fine - but it's a steep curve to get there!

The conform process (from FCP, anyway) is pretty solid, so I'm sticking by the workflow of offline in FCP/Avid, conform/Color/VFX/FINISH in Smoke. Good luck!

David Jahns
---
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


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dermot shane
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 17, 2012 at 8:25:24 pm

Q; Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
A; a few, but for every short from cut in Smoke top to tail, there's 1000 cut in DS... better tools for the job, and that's why it's used for that morning, noon and night

Smoke has it's strength's and weaknesses... as does DS...

But maybe the most telling is Discreet using a promo cut, graded, mixed, and gfx all done in DS, and then a clean textless sent to OZ, there a Smoke was used to insert local gfx, and somehow that has became "Smoke was used for editing this show promo"... bwhaaaaaaa....... the best they can do for showing what Smoke can do is to use something done in DS and claim it...

DS is argueably a better tool for top to tail edit / grade / GFX / mix in a single box, but what's not an argueable point is that DS is vastly more widely used for this workflow

d


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Andriy Toloshnyy
Re: Does anyone actually edit in smoke ?
on Mar 29, 2012 at 4:50:11 am

I've just found out that Smoke is extremely useful in editing music videos as you can compound all the synchronous tracks into a container (or several containers) and then cutting the container and just switching the focus point will give cuts to a different angles, still visually you have space for b-roll and inserts in the main timeline. For this Container/TL (H) + Src/Rec view makes an amazing combination. The only small thing I found out that when you making a container from the synchro tracks in the middle of timeline it can become out of sync being contained, but back to sync again when expanding container to the timeline. It has some explanation for sure but as the quick workaround I've placed a color source for the whole duration of the music and using it as the first track then everything is synced perfectly. Also in Container/TL view I can switch focus to the timeline with F7 but could not found any shortcut for switching it back to Container yet.


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