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Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?

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Jason Kalinoski
Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 2, 2010 at 1:47:13 am

Hello,
I’ve got the demo version of Smoke on Mac running on all approved hardware.

I can get video preview out of the SDI output to my broadcast monitor, but I’m trying to get a simultaneous feed to my client monitor via component. As of now, I just get green static.

The Kona 3 functions fine when using FCP, so is this not possible with Smoke?

Thanks,
Jason


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Chris Hanson
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 3, 2010 at 3:36:36 pm

Hi Jason,
As I understand it, all the outputs of the Kona break-out box as "live" all the time (since the Mac version doesn't use the SDI daughter card as with the Linux version.)
I would suggest checking the default project setting within smoke. Is it a PAL/NTSC/HD project ? It might be that it's using an NTSC default project. Your SDI monitor might be able to auto-detect this and switch to NTSC mode but your PAL component monitor can't. (or vice-versa if your in a PAL country)
Hope this makes some sense :-)
cheers
chris



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Bob Zelin
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 7, 2010 at 6:12:03 pm

Hey Jason -
my first time causing trouble on this forum. Close Smoke, and open up the AJA Control Panel on your MAC. Go to the control tab, and select TEST PATTERN. You will now have color bars going to all outputs. Check your FORMAT tab to see if you are outputting a 525 or HD *720 or 1080 signal. Now, if you are feeding your client monitor, go to the ANALOG tab, and see what is selected - primary, or secondary - what are you feeding it ? If you are going to a plasma, you are probably feeding it analog component HD (Y Pb Pr). Your monitor should be able to easily see this signal (even old cheapo's will scale down an HD signal). If you don't see bars, check your cabling. If the Y cable is in the wrong place, you will get nothing.

And don't operate SMOKE with the control panel on "input passthrough".

Bob Zelin




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Jason Kalinoski
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 8, 2010 at 3:01:32 pm

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the suggestions, but it appears that the Smoke software takes control of the AJA control panel and disables the component outs when it's running. I'm just running the demo at this time, but this has been confirmed by Grant from Discreet.

I'm not sure if there's a technical reason for it or it's something that can be added to later software updates, but I'm trying to get that feature requested. It would sure be nice for monitoring.

Thanks,
Jason



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Chris Hanson
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 8, 2010 at 4:12:01 pm

Hi Jason,
I'm also chasing this up with Grant 'cos I'm also confused. I know the Linux version uses the SDI daughter board of the FX5800 GPU to "feed" a broadcast monitor since the AJA output is only live during print-to-tape, but the Mac version doesn't have any way of using the nVidia card as a frame buffer.
In your case, it would require a SDI distribution amp to split the SDI output and a SDI to component convertor to view on a analog monitor.
cheers
chris.




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Grant Kay
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 8, 2010 at 4:15:55 pm

Hi,

As I mentioned on the other forums, I will pass on this request.

The only suggestion I have is to use a splitter to split the SDI signal. You might be able to get away with a passive splitter (T-bar) but you just need to watch the cable length.

All you need is a screen with an SDI input. (or I have used a screen with a DVI/HDMI input and you use a SDI2DVI/HDMI converter)

Regards
Grant

Check out my Flame and Smoke blog at http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/discreetuk


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Jason Kalinoski
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 8, 2010 at 4:33:58 pm

Hey Grant,

I had posted this in a few places looking for input...and admittedly, to "beat the drum" a bit and draw attention to this issue in the hopes other users would see the benefit and email autodesk. Hopefully, if enough people need it, they can enable the ouputs in the next patch or release.

Of course, I'm not a software engineer, but I have to think it's possible since it works in most other applications.

I certainly appreciate your help and input,
Jason



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Bob Zelin
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 9, 2010 at 3:45:38 am

I was totally unaware of this as well. I am surprised that Autodesk does not take advantage
of the built in features of the Kona 3. A "splitter" or an AJA HD5DA is certainly cheap enough
at $225, but what Grant doesn't get is that many people do NOT have an SDI monitor, and use modern
plasma displays which only have analog CAV HD inputs to be fed by the Kona 3. Smoke has historically been a hi end product, so the associated hardware would be "cost no object" - but in modern post systems, many people rely on inexpensive plasma displays with HDMI or HD Y Pb Pr signal inputs, and have no access to HD-SDI or SD-SDI inputs.

Certainly AJA and others make HD-SDI to CAV converters, but since all of this is built into the Kona 3, it makes absolutely no sense not to use these features instantly.

Bob Zelin




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Chris Hanson
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 9, 2010 at 10:34:57 am

It also means you're shelling out $300 for the AJA break-out box just to get 2 channels of analog audio.

chris.



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moody glasgow
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 9, 2010 at 5:49:18 pm

I agree with what you are saying about not using all the outputs on the Kona3 is a little odd.
And I know many people, and big post houses, use plasma that are consumer grade in their bays, and dont have an SDI or HD/SDI input on them. We use Panasonic plasma with HDSDI on all our systems (FCP and Smoke). I can't tell you how many compliments I get in my Smoke room on that monitor.
If you are going to $40k + on a system, why go cheap on your client monitor and save a thousand bucks?

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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nick hasson
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 9, 2010 at 8:02:55 pm

"We use Panasonic plasma with HDSDI on all our systems (FCP and Smoke). I can't tell you how many compliments I get in my Smoke room on that monitor. "


I have the same screens and i get the same thing. People are alway amazed with the picture that plasma gets.

Nick Hasson
EDIT - Smoke artist
http://www.niceedits.com


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Bob Zelin
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Feb 11, 2010 at 6:10:58 pm

Hi Moody,
today, an AJA HD5DA is $225 at B&H. Today, a Blackmagic D/A that will not only convert the HD-SDI to analog HD YPbPr AND de embed the audio is only $450. So, without Autodesk doing anything, it will cost only $675 to do everything anyone wants with Kona 3 for Smoke. But you asked
"If you are going to $40k + on a system, why go cheap on your client monitor and save a thousand bucks?"

REPLY - Because I know the market, I know the clients, and almost EVERYONE wants to spend ZERO DOLLARS if they don't have to. This has always been the case. The whole craze over Smoke now is because it is CHEAP - and people who want cheap want to spend zero dollars. This is the daily dabate over AJA vs. Blackmagic. This is the daily debate over LCD vs. Plasma. This is the daily debate over everything. The company who is cheaper usually wins out (look at the history of our business), and if the features are there (built into the Kona 3 for example), people will want them for free, instead of paying only $675 for excellent equipment.

I cannot begin to tell you how often I see places with HDCam SR or Digi Beta VTR's and no black gen. People with HD systems and no HD monitor. This is VERY common place - just because you are a professional, does not mean that the vast majority of people out there are. Ultimately, Autodesk wants to make money, and with the excellent release of Smoke on MAC, they will probably make more money than ever. And the rates for doing a Smoke job will soon become less than ever. And as usual, professionals like yourself will ultimately say "it's not the equipment, it's the artist that is using it". And the guy who has cheaper rates than you, will win many of the jobs you bid on, even though you are dramtically better than him.

Bob Zelin




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Jean-Marc Laurin
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Mar 14, 2010 at 5:58:09 pm

Cheaper AND better usually does the trick. The rest comes in coffee flavours and skirt lengths. ;-)


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Ergin Kuke
Re: Smoke on Mac - Simultaneous outputs active on Kona 3?
on Mar 29, 2010 at 6:16:50 pm

Does this mean Smoke on Mac does not support component out at all through the Kona? or the problem exists only in simultaneous output ?


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