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Todd Jaspers
SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 19, 2009 at 10:33:37 pm

Hello, I am watching the SMOKE evolution for OS X, and it sounds pretty cool.

I have been in the process of evaluating and looking at other systems, from Speedgrade, Scratch and even Pablo.

I have been in a lot of SMOKE sessions, and I have seen color grading, but I can't find that much information about how it does secondaries and such.

I know it won't have close to the CC features as say a SCRATCH or LUSTRE, but CC is definitely a big deal for us for setting up an online.

I would love to hear anybody out there talking about coming from something like LUSTRE or SCRATCH or similar color grading apps and compare that to their experience of coloring in SMOKE. I have a background in compositing and I have tried to do composting and CC in the Avid DS systems, and honestly I think they are total crap for the price. As an ONLINE I guess DS is good for broadcast, but for vfx its garbage. SMOKE definitely blows the DS away in that respect which is exciting.

Any thoughts on SMOKE as a CC box would be great.

Thanks..

So




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moody glasgow
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 19, 2009 at 11:16:48 pm

Hey Todd,

I dont have experience on any other color grading app other than color. I have used the Smoke to do final color correction on several projects, and I think it works good. The color corrector has 2 modules, the standard color corrector and the color warper. The color warper uses the flames diamond keyer to isolate colors allowing you to control certain colors better.
The CC module can also be used inside of action, so color correcting is built into your compositing. Very helpful.
Personally, I love color correcting in the Smoke.


moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Rick Turners
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 19, 2009 at 11:25:31 pm

Seems like a lot of post houses use Flame for final CC of spots.
Have flare assistants cut mattes.
send to flame
Flame does the CC.

I'm not sure what the difference for CC work is between flame and smoke though.


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moody glasgow
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 19, 2009 at 11:32:28 pm

No difference at all between Smoke and Flame for CC...

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Todd Jaspers
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 20, 2009 at 5:01:21 pm

does smoke let u do, inner outer keys, add and subtract keys? Use roto shape to stack or select or de select. Scratch, lustre and quantel, all have those features. Just wondering how smoke does it?




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moody glasgow
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 20, 2009 at 5:07:54 pm

Inside of CC you only can do certain things, but if you use the CC inside of action, you can use all the keying and matting and tracking features that the Smoke has. Its just a different way to do it, but once you are used to it, its not a big deal.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Todd Jaspers
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 5:52:22 am

but there will be no ACTION inside of Smoke for Mac. So i wonder how this is going to affect our view of it as an online color station. Hmmmm


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Rick Turners
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 9:28:22 am

I'm not completely familiar with smoke/flame etc.

What are the Batch and Action functions exactly? It's starting to sound like these tools are what set Smoke apart from current finishing solutions.. Smoke without them sounds plain?


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moody glasgow
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 3:43:22 pm

Smoke on Mac will only be missing Batch, not Action. Smoke without Action would be severely cripple, and not worth the price.

Batch is the node based compositing that originated in Flame, and was recently put in the 2k version of Smoke. Batch is an awesome tool that is great setting up composites.

Action used to be called DVE in Smoke. It is a module where you can composite multiple layers, apply color correction to each layer, add 3d objects and lights.

Batch is not included in Smoke on Mac, Action is included.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Todd Jaspers
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 5:05:53 pm

Sounds great, very exciting, only thing will be the how responsive SMOKE on MAC will be. Batch sounds great, but NUKE with a SMOKE sounds like dream combo. A resonsive affordable DI finishing station for Linear projects, films, commercial etc..Is really what is needed out there.. The NDA stuff out there around SMOKE for Mac is not that great, how do I know if I want to implement this into our workflow if no one knows when its available for purchase?

If I can do secondaries somehow via BATCH inside of SMOKE for MAC, then thats it, its a done deal. I will now being using SMOKE for MAC, whenever it comes out..

Anyone want to guess when I can pick one up??

Hey moody, do you know of any FFI/SMOKE grading tutorials out there?
Also there is not going to be any RTD becuase no NVIDIA SDI via mac, but how could a 4800 with great drivers not be snappy? Autodesk has good programmers, they should be able to figure something out to make SMOKE on Mac snappy and responsive.


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Andrae Palmer
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 8:21:33 pm

I had a Demo of Smoke but still couldn't wrap my head around Batch FX. I noticed in Smoke for Mac that it had a node based window that looked exactly the same as Batch FX in Smoke Advanced. It was very confusing because I was wondering why they both had a node based interface. I wasn't able to get a comprehensible explanation during the demo. So my question now is... what is batch fx say compared to Shake/Nuke, etc? Is it just a selectable timeline and then switch to node interface or does it do something different with renders compared to say Shake or Nuke?

Andrae Palmer
Producer
FACETMEDIA LLC
http://www.facetmedia.com


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moody glasgow
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 8:47:50 pm

Smoke on Mac DOES NOT have Batch.

Anything you saw that had nodes was probably Action.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Andrae Palmer
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 22, 2009 at 9:27:35 pm

Moody,

Thanks for your answer. I'm quite sure that is the case. As stated, I was quite confused by the similar looking interfaces and couldn't understand the differences. So since Action looks similar to Batch FX... what are the differences? Is Batch FX just the same as in Shake or Nuke? Does it have an advantage compared to these other programs? is the rendering hardware based, faster rendering process, etc?

Andrae Palmer
Producer
FACETMEDIA LLC
http://www.facetmedia.com


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Joel Osis
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 23, 2009 at 4:17:58 am

Action is nothing like shake or nuke, its pretty much nodes but only for transformations, also there are no sparks in action...only in batch.
The power of batch is that you don't have to reverse engineer how a action setup was made through slow and painful history on the desktop.
The rendering is nothing special form my experience...if anything batch setups take longer to render because you arn't processing as you go like you would if using action



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Simon Blackledge
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 23, 2009 at 8:57:50 am

Ok I'll try and explain coming from a flame background.

All nodal based parts of the system have very similar icons. Hence your confusion with Batch vs Action.

The diff is in the workflow.

So in action > add clips >multilayer in 3d if you like. select any layer add a mask or a CC etc. layers can be mixed res etc. Once happy render that com to the dektop/library

But!.. what if you then want to apply something else to that comp then feed that as a background to another?

You Batch them.

So Smoke on mac will look like this Action>render>desktop>2nd Action>render>Desktop


Smoke with Batch would be Batch >add Action module >feeds 2nd Action module > fed into say a glow plugin > 3rd Action module > Duplicate all 3 actions 4 times and feed all those actions as layers into a main Action module.. Very powerful. Plus bare in mind when that render is within an edit.. or wherever that clip will have "clip history" so if you wanna change it knows where it came from.

hope that helps.

though I'm unsure in the current Smack* if you can exit Action without rendering and feed that into another Action from the desktop. Plus how Clip History currently works.

si








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Andrae Palmer
Re: SMOKE Color Correction
on Nov 23, 2009 at 2:02:52 pm

Simon,

Thanks for taking the time to explain this in a way that I fully understand now. I appreciate it. Yes, indeed this is a very powerful tool.

Andrae Palmer
Producer
FACETMEDIA LLC
http://www.facetmedia.com


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