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Real Time Composite?

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George and the Bush
Real Time Composite?
on Aug 7, 2006 at 4:30:42 pm

Am I just crazy.. or does the smoke not do real time compositing like the DS?
I'm talking Layer 1. a backround - Layer 2. a fill with a matte and watching the composite without rendering it, let alone re-rendering it everytime you you do anything to either the layers.



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Arturo Camacho
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 8, 2006 at 5:32:26 am

You can do that on the timeline using an axis soft effect. If you go through the DVE you will have to render it.

With the axis soft effect you can key (or apply a matte) change position, rotation and scale, without having to render it (even add 3d text). If you have several layers, then you'll have to pre-process the layers below to have the realtime playback. All of this again in the timeline.

Arturo.



Digital Logic -- Mexico
------------------------------
Certified Flame & Smoke Instructor
Demo, Support & Training
arturocdl@digitlogic.net


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George and the Bush
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 8, 2006 at 12:19:38 pm

That's my beef.. having to "pre-process" when will I ever have a fill and a matte without something underneith it?

I'm working on a smoke on Linux.. and using the soft axis.. and In my experience I have to render the layers above anything else.

If I put my background footage on V1 then add a fill and matte on L1 (above V1 on the timeline) I have to process in the soft axis setup before I can watch it back in real time. If I then have to add something on top of that on L2 I would have to render L1, then L2 everytime I do anything to any of the layer (V1, L1, or L2). Even if I just slide L1 5 frames, I have to re-render (process) L1 & L2.

Is this just because I have a smoke on Linux?

I had a fellow editor show me how he would do it on a avid DS and he just added as many fills and mattes (about 6 of them) on multiple layer, with animated moves and scales.. all with out processing, and played it all back in real time.


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BKM
Re: Real Time Composite?
by
on Aug 8, 2006 at 7:55:08 pm

Did you not have a chance to demo Smoke before it was purchased?

Honestly, in short form work, how long does it really take to process the timeline with a few layers? Not that long really. It is a pain when you move layers things become unrendered in odd places... I think that is being addressed in the next release, to some degree.

You also have the option of locking your processed effects.

BKM


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George and the Bush
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 8, 2006 at 8:13:37 pm

The facility I work at has a bunch of Avid DS' and a Smoke on Linux. I was going to learn the Smoke (I'm currently a Flint user) until I realised how limited it was.

Guess I'll learn the DS instead.


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jimmybee500
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 10, 2006 at 10:30:35 am

When is the next release on Linux due? Is this Smoke HD or 2K you're talking about here? (UK versions)



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John Mastrogiacomo
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 16, 2006 at 5:04:01 am

Smoke is pretty sad when it comes to moving clips around and having to re-render stuff.

I have smoke networked to a PC running Fusion 5 and just network stuff back and forth for short things like :30 spots. That's pretty much all I do. For CC and chroma keying smoke is good, but for any complicated effects it is really not up to the task.

John Mastrogiacomo
Spectra Video Productions, Inc.


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jimmybee500
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 16, 2006 at 8:51:33 am

John, is that PC running on Linux aswell or windows?

I ask because we were told that if we were to get Smoke on Linux (I wonder if it's worth waiting for the next release?) they'd we'd do better to change all our GFX / offline edit stations to Macs on OSX..because of the networking integration. Any ideas on this?

I think the plan was to get an FCP on mac, have a 3D gfx station (Maya/3DS max/ or XSI?) on mac, and a 2D (Shake,AFX,Combustion, etc) on mac hooked up to an XRAID along with the Smoke.

I figured that the Smoke would be able to do alot of the simpler GFX work, allowing the Combustion, etc to take some of the heavier Compositing/FX jobs. Is Smoke on Linux pretty weak other than for straight editing, CC & keying work then?

Thanks.


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moodyglasgow
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 18, 2006 at 8:47:38 pm

Who says you have to change all your GFX and Edit stations to Mac OSX? Many of our systems here run on Windows, and we havn't had any real problems networking with the Smoke. In fact if you plan to export directly from the Smoke to Cleaner, you have to run cleaner on a Windows system.

moody glasgow
smoke artist / editor


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jimmybee500
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 21, 2006 at 10:19:48 am

It was some company that installs whole new systems/networks for facilities (can't remember their name, my boss got a quote from them a little while ago)

I think they were mainly suggesting it because of FCP's tight integration with Smoke (and Shake's with FCP) and with XRAID being a good, but fairly cheap central storage solution for the entire facility. Wouldn't all the stations need to be mac-based to play ball with XRAID/XSERVE?

Cleaner export - interesting - I didn't know that. I thought Smoke had Cleaner within it..


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moodyglasgow
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 21, 2006 at 11:00:28 pm

Yeah, we didnt realize that we had to run cleaner on a PC until after we got the Smoke. Oh well, its not that big of a deal anyways.

BTW, are you talking about using the XRAID as the primary storage for the Smoke also? If so, let me know how that works, I'd be really interested in that. I've heard of people using X-Stoner to transfer an XML file, including the media, from FCP into the Smoke, but I havn't heard of a Smoke using XRaid as its primary storage.

moody glasgow
smoke artist / editor


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jimmybee500
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 22, 2006 at 9:13:01 am

XRAID as primary storage for Smoke -

I *think* that was the idea, I'll have to check. I'm pretty sure they were suggesting something like


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moodyglasgow
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 22, 2006 at 7:36:47 pm

After talking to our Smoke Tech guy, he says that you have to have the Smoke Local storage as the Primary storage. You can connect it to a SAN, but it wont be the Primary stogae for a Smoke. He also confirmed that you have to run Cleaner XL on a PC only. Lastly, he says that networking a Smoke with PC vs. Macs is about the same.


moody glasgow
smoke artist / editor


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jimmybee500
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 23, 2006 at 10:01:21 am

Really..Thanks for that. Will look into it. So a Linux Smoke will talk to a PC running XP, just as well as it would a mac running OSX? OR are you refering to PCs on Linux aswell?

Thanks Moody.


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moodyglasgow
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 23, 2006 at 9:39:19 pm

All our PC's run Windows XP. I run a laptop (Windows XP pro) on my console for grabbing emails and stuff from FTP sites, and I have no problems connecting to the Smoke (on Linux). I send files back and forth all the time. Just so you know, the Tech from Discreet set up the Linux so that you can FTP into, so I don't think it really matters what OS you run your other computers on.

moody glasgow
smoke artist / editor


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Arturo Camacho
Re: Real Time Composite?
on Aug 28, 2006 at 6:02:14 am

Yup, for primary storage you need the stone array, but you can use the xsan/xraid and soft-import your images (through an NFS export, or i think you can install this StoreNext client that will let you see the xsan seamlessly). The renders that you do with those, will go into the stone, but at least you won't lose time importing.

To communicate with the PC's you have two options, well several in fact, but the easiest thing would be to set up a Samba Share on your linux/Irix box which you'll be able to see in your windows box under network neigborhood, either that or ftp access, which is pretty straightforward too. For mac you can NFS export a folder, either from the mac to the irix/linux box, or the other way around.

Sharity is also a good option to look into, if you want different platforms to communicate with each other.

Xstoner like someone mentioned in previous posts, is a good tool, that will let you read and write directly to the stone, without having to use the smoke for this. Haven't seen it work under linux, but it should work!

The advantage you would get working with th FCP/MacOSX side of things is Smoke's support for XML files. It will make your life easier. :)

Hope this helps.

Arturo

Digital Logic -- Mexico
------------------------------
Certified Flame & Smoke Instructor
Demo, Support & Training
arturocdl@digitlogic.net


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