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8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?

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Neil Sadwelkar
8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 22, 2005 at 8:23:17 am

OK so we've setup this new facility 2 months ago with 3 smoke 6.5, 2 Flame 9, Lustre and even a Discreet SAN. From the start we've worked on 10bit SD. Even our FCPs are 10bit. But some days ago a Discreet (or is it Autodesk) Application specialist walks in and instructs all online artists to go back to 8bit, or consider using 8bit (or words to that effect). His contention was that since Discreet processes everything as RGB444, there is no real advantage working in 10bit.

So what is Discreet's official position on this ? I'm not interested in a 8bit vs. 10bit debate as this has been done to death on this and other forums. All I want to know is if 8bit is so great, then why do Discreet softwares even have a 10bit option. My online artists complain that 10bit even takes longer to archive and takes up more space. So if Discreet says 8bit is sufficient how can I induce them to work in 10bit.

Or is this Discreet Application Specialist wrong in his contention ? I'm not mentioning any names as this isn't about an individual.

Neil


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Chris Hanson
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 22, 2005 at 2:29:57 pm

Neil,
I'm not too sure what the oficial discreet/Autodesk policy is in the 8/10bit arguement. I can only guess that the app specialist might have been basing his recommendation on the other equipment in your facility. If all your source VTR's etc are 8bit decks, then working at 10bit would be pointless I suppose.
Like you mentioned, there's been more than enough debate about 8/10 bit and the white papers on RGB vs YUV would fill an airplane hanger :-)
cheers
chris.


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Bryan Rawles
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 22, 2005 at 4:30:40 pm

I think that this has more to do with the fact that the new Smoke 6.7 "TV Version" on linux can only do HD in 8bit. Check out their website, the HD in/out is only 8bit. So I think they are trying to sell people on 8bit so they can sell their new systems.

-Bryan


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Arturo Camacho
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 22, 2005 at 10:44:09 pm

If you are doing just SD work the best option should be to work on 8 bit since 10 might be a bit of overkill.

10 bit for HD work and film work (10big log) most of the times is really the option to go.

Arturo


Digital Logic -- Mexico
------------------------------
Demo, Support & Training
arturocdl@digitlogic.net


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 25, 2005 at 12:20:16 am

The decks are all DigiBeta VTRs which are ... er .... 10-bit in and out. But the FCPs are 10bit.

Neil


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Patrick Hausler
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 25, 2005 at 9:59:06 pm

We almost always do 10-bit...since we too are using Digibeta. If you're not creating lots of graphics/effects it's a bit of overkill though.

Patrick Hausler
smoke/flame/combustion/3dsmax artist
Los Angeles, CA


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Peter Corbett
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Apr 29, 2005 at 6:15:37 am

If you doing gaussian blurs, animated sequences with graduations and slow FTB's, you will DEFINITELY see the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit. The RGB4:4:4 thing is out of my zone.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
Australia


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laguun
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on May 2, 2005 at 3:17:50 pm

10 bit is must for colorcorrection. nuff


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jaybee
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Jul 27, 2005 at 3:18:56 pm


Not wanting to get into a colour science debate (as its pretty dull) - but the RGB 4:4:4 signal at 8 bit, harbours more colour overhead than the digibeta's 10 bit YUV equivalent...

its not as simple as an 8 bit v 10 bit question...


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: 8bit or 10bit - Discreet's position?
on Jul 27, 2005 at 3:50:08 pm

[jaybee] "RGB 4:4:4 signal at 8 bit, harbours more colour overhead than the digibeta's 10 bit YUV equivalent."

Exactly what does this mean?
I had written about a specific - 10bit yes or 8bit yes. Not better or worse.
And if 8bit 4:4:4 is OK and sufficient and harbours more color overhead, then why have a 10bit at all I had asked. Stick to 8 bit and go to town about the extra color overhead as it were.
Besides, DigiBeta is 10bit YUV 4:2:2

Also I did get a response from a Discreet person who said one should employ 8-bit or 10-bit based on the medium in and out. So, for a 8-bit medium like D1, HDCam, DVCpro, one can get away with 8bit, while with 10-bit sources like Digital Betacam, D5, HD-D5, HDCam SR, one should use 10-bit.
Further this person said if one has material that contains very dark and high light, you
may get banding. Working at 10-bit helps this. And for film work, 10 or even 12-bit is the way to go. Of course, working at 10-bit takes more time to process, archive and uses more storage.
But you have more colors to work with so more precision.

Neil


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