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Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed

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Ken Geary
Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 17, 2009 at 7:57:37 pm

Hello all,

I am specing out a multi-image show for November. it's been strongly suggested to go with the Vista Spyder, but that's $$$ to rent.
Here's what we want to do:
50' x 15' screen, 3 8K projectors, 1280-x1024 rez
Opening video will be entire screen fed from either 3 Mac sync'd laptops or one HD deck.
presentations will have a graphic full screen rez backdrop (moving image backdrop, such as HD loop off blu-ray preferred)
On top of backdrop will be 2 picture-in-picture images, each 16x9 format. One will show Computer (Powerpoint) the other IMAG or video tape roll.
Any thoughts? resources you can point to? any demo video of the screen pro ii in action with above config?

Thanks

Ken




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Mike Golding
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 19, 2009 at 1:13:46 am

the ScreenPro II is still a single output device and won't accomplish the flow it sounds like you are expecting. To do the 3 screen blend with a single background source and two separate layers with different sources is doable a number of ways...but not with a single ScreenPro II.

using the Spyder option, you are looking at a Spyder 344 at a minimum to get the number of layers and outputs you are looking for.

using a Barco Encore system- you are still looking at needing more than the baseline system to get the proper number of inputs and outputs. You would need to add a 2nd processor to the base system.

using Watchout- you are looking at needing a 4 key system to do the three screen blend..however you need to run all the content from the Watchout to avoid any lag. You can bring in external video but you would need to use a distribution amplifier when the signals are overlapping from one unit to another.

and there are still other ways to do this. Guess need more information

MBP 2.4 4GB Ram/FCS2
Power Mac Dual 1.8 G5/5.5GB Ram/Radeon 9600/FCS2
Aja io hd for MBP/ Aja io LA&LD for G5


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Lisa Caplan
Encore vs. Montage or Spyder
on Mar 25, 2011 at 5:02:47 pm

We are producing an event and will use the Encore system for the first time. In the past, we've used Montage and Spyder. In preparing images, do we need to use different resources for the Encore? or if we've worked with a specific resolution in the past can we anticipate using that same approach?


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Julian Williamson
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 20, 2009 at 7:24:01 am

Two screen Pro's could do it as a cost effective option, although probably not transitioning across the blend lines of what I assume is a seamless soft-edge blend backdrop. More info about your proposed setup would help; depends on how you decide to deliver the content; Matrox Triplehead may be a happy and less expensive alternative to Watchout here.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 20, 2009 at 4:01:25 pm

To add to the excellent advice from Mike and Julian that you've gotten already:

I generally prefer Spyder to Encore because its architecture is more elegant and flexible, but I think it's overkill for the show as you've described it. Encore was built to do exactly what you are describing and will be more cost-effective than Spyder.

Watchout is a great solution for feeding full-res backgrounds to a multi-image switcher, and I use Watchout all the time, but I'd hesitate to recommend it as a multi-image switcher itself. It works on a timeline metaphor, not a program/preview metaphor. This makes it great for canned shows that won't change, but less practical for live events where you'd prefer some flexibility in switching. The new features in v4 go a long way towards addressing this concern, but it's still not the same as a Spyder or Encore with easily recalled presets.

Also, when I use Watchout systems, we always spec a backup, so you'd want to double your estimate to 8 keys and systems. Although Watchout itself is very stable, I'm uncomfortable with the risk of a computer crash without a live backup during a show.

I've done shows with other systems as well, but as Julian mentioned, you will run into resource constraints; you may not be able to position PIPs in the blends, and you may not be able to transition from one source in a PIP to another depending on the number of M/Es in use, forcing you to clear one PIP out before bringing the next source back in. That doesn't sound like a big deal on paper, but it really slows down your transitions at the event. In other words, you will save on budget, but your creative options onsite will be severely limited.

Finally, I'm not a projectionist, but will 8K projectors be bright enough? I would have guessed 15K as a starting point.

Walter Soyka, Principal
Keen Live, Inc.
Presentation, Motion Graphics & Widescreen Design
RenderBreak: A Blog on Innovation in Production



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maurice jansen
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 20, 2009 at 4:10:48 pm

hi there

have a look at the Di-VENTIX II - DVX8044 or the OPUS from analogway.
maybe they can do what you want.
other wise have a look TVone

greet
Maurice


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Walter Soyka
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 20, 2009 at 6:19:56 pm

DiVentix was one of the systems I had resource constraints with because of the edge-blend. It was workable, but we had to keep PIPs out of the blends & couldn't mix two sources in the same PIP with the configuration we had rented. Your mileage may vary, but this is a concern you might raise with your AV company.

Walter Soyka, Principal
Keen Live, Inc.
Presentation, Motion Graphics & Widescreen Design
RenderBreak: A Blog on Innovation in Production



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Mike Golding
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 21, 2009 at 9:04:52 pm

Walter brings up a good point as well on the brightness of the projector. A few things when blending to really make it a nice image:

use a neutral gain screen (1.0 gain factor)
Front projection works better than rear
use DLP 3 chip projectors rather than single chip or LCDs. DLP 3 chip maintain a much higher level of consistency in the colors and brightness from side to side of the DMD chip than LCDs can do. This results in better matching from center points to edges-big issues when doing blends.
using any type of manual dowser to remove the halo from the projected ouptput? This helps as well.

Just some thoughts. I have done many blends and each one is its own unique project. It can be done very well with fore planning and paying attention rather than cutting corners.


MBP 2.4 4GB Ram/FCS2
Power Mac Dual 1.8 G5/5.5GB Ram/Radeon 9600/FCS2
Aja io hd for MBP/ Aja io LA&LD for G5


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Ken Geary
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 22, 2009 at 3:29:20 pm

To all who responde:

Thansk and WOW..a lot of options. I was handed a budget yesterday which is less than last years event(basic 2 screen 2 projector deal).
Seems that Watchout , Spyder and some other systems would require a seasoned operator ($$ for extra manpower).
I'm looking now at the cheaper alternative and wonder what the tradeoff will be. I see Christie has a 20K lumen Cinema projector (over 200 pixel horiz). Essentially less pixel horiz than 3 projectors but i may knock down the screen size to 50' x 15' to make this happen. the ScreenPro II should be able to give me what I want with one projector, no?
As for the "para roll" 3 sync'd DDR's or Mac laptops, I can have my editor fudge it by comping the 3 sequenced video screens (standard def) ina 1080i HD comp and we can spit it out from a HD1400 deck.
Biggest concern would probably be the powerpoint p-in-p but i think this may work as the low budget-big screen option.
The Christie Cinema display specs claim it can handle a screen up to 75" so I should be OK?

Thanks, looking forward to any other suggestions. I'm sure I'm not the only one dealing with budget hell :(

Ken



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Mike Golding
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 23, 2009 at 10:18:02 pm

The main concern to me would be the screen aspect of 3.33:1. Cinemascope or 2.35:1 is about the widest setting that most of the units will handle without needing overshoot or cropping. Plus the cinema projectors themselves are a bit more finicky than tried and true staging style projectors. Myself, indoors on a cheaper budget- I would try using a 2 projector soft blend (built into the projector) to each do a 26.5' wide image by 15' tall. or doing an overshoot with a single projector in 2.35 mode knowing that I would have 3 feet of spill top and bottom and use the shutter to black it out. ON a budget...look at using Panasonic DT-PZ12000U or Christie HD12K Roadsters. If you are game for the soft edge blending take a look at the Christie HD10K M Series. Then do your Video playback at 1080 and let the ScreenPRO-II HD do pip for you.

MBP 2.4 4GB Ram/FCS2
Power Mac Dual 1.8 G5/5.5GB Ram/Radeon 9600/FCS2
Aja io hd for MBP/ Aja io LA&LD for G5


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Ken Geary
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 29, 2009 at 11:47:57 am

Walter,

Thank you. I do have another question , 2 out of 3 vendors I'm working with are spec'ing the Vista Spyder for this program. We need to control 3 ddr's (GV Turbo Iddr is recommeded) synced frame accurate to each other to display 3 separate video streams that are edited to one piece of music with all cuts/transitions and effects tied to the music. Does the Vista Spyder have the capability to do this?



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Walter Soyka
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 29, 2009 at 7:09:03 pm

Hi Ken,

I'm not perfectly clear on what you are asking—let me know if this doesn't address your question.

Spyder will let you blend your 3 DDRs onscreen into one seamless image. You'll have to check with the vendors to make sure that the specific Spyder configurations they are offering you have enough inputs to accommodate your needs. For example, to run IMAG and PPT over your sync roll, you will need at least 5 inputs.

You will need an operator to run the Turbos; Spyder won't cue them for you.

Walter Soyka, Principal
Keen Live, Inc.
Presentation, Motion Graphics & Widescreen Design
RenderBreak: A Blog on Innovation in Production



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Mike Golding
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 30, 2009 at 7:51:17 pm

I agree that you would want to have the operator to run the Turbos or any other DDR for a live event, I wouldn't do a show without the tape operator unless the poor guy fell over during the show. That being said, Spyder in conjunction with the Vista Sourcemaster, can actually cue the Turbos or DDRs. I wouldn't try to do a live show this way if there was tons of cues but if it was a scripted show, this works. Turbos aren't the greatest devices for this though, DDRs with 3rd party control (Doremi/Fast Forward/Watchout) work better. I know that pretty much the play and pause commands work with the Turbos, but nothing else that I would depend on.

Just a FYI

MBP 2.4 4GB Ram/FCS2
Power Mac Dual 1.8 G5/5.5GB Ram/Radeon 9600/FCS2
Aja io hd for MBP/ Aja io LA&LD for G5


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Ken Geary
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Jul 31, 2009 at 8:07:04 pm

Thanks to all who replied...
The DDR's may be replaced by 3 Mac laptops with PresenterPro software.
No cues on this part, just being used for the opening video.
the visual is basically a 3 monitor "videowall" style.



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Nicholas Rivero
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Aug 1, 2009 at 7:33:01 am

My thought was to recommend a Mac running ProPresenter using a Triple Head to Go with their Advanced Module which allows specific control/functionality with the TH2GO, but I know you said you needed more advanced functionality such as PiP.

//nick


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Bill Lewis
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Aug 5, 2009 at 4:28:42 pm

Hello I just ran across this post so my 2 cents worth.

Vista is a great system and can be done at a "cost" efficient with the right "company" doing the work.

Playback Pro a good choice and cost efficient also, I own the PBP product and would be happy to talk about a quote for you. I have 20 years in the AV Staging business as a tape operator and setting up large venue projection.

If you are doing HD Playback work Mac Towers is the way to go. SD laptops can work just fine.

Good day to all.



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James Thweatt
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Sep 3, 2009 at 2:05:22 am

I just came across this thread while doing some web searching.

If you are still interested in a Vista Spyder for November, I have a 344 frame available for rent relatively inexpensively.

Jim, 240-508-9760


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Richard Sands
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Aug 28, 2010 at 5:28:11 pm

have you found your gear for this show yet I have a spyder system that I might let go for the cost of an encore system and might be able to ugrade your projectors for same cost


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Richard Sands
Re: Folsom Screen Pro II expert advice needed
on Aug 28, 2010 at 5:48:07 pm

Ken

If you have not finalize a vendor yet please contact me rsavtech@gmail.com I have a spyder and projectors and several playback options that could work within your budget possiblity of an upgrade to 20k hd projectors depending on dates

Thanks

Richard


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