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Peter Groom
Building DVD
on Jul 10, 2013 at 8:36:17 pm

Hi
I encode my M2v DVD compliant assets in sorenson squeeze,.
When i make a blu ray using this workflow, i have the option on "Dont Transcode" against the m2v, which results in a very fast build, but I dont seem to have a "dont transcode" option against the dvd asset.
Does this mean
1) my dvd asset is nOT dvd compliant asset and it has to be transcoded
or
2) i havent found the option, if so pleaae advise
3) something else

Cheers
peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 2:00:37 pm

Hi Peter,

You may have answered your own question, the .m2v may not be DVD compliant. And are you using the same file for both Blu-ray and DVD? That is unclear from your post.

Would you be able to post a screen shot of the encoding parameters used in Squeeze? Or at least reply with the MPEG-2 DVD settings used?

Thank you

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 3:25:36 pm

Hi Jeff
Thanks for responding.

I make 2 files, one for dvd and 1 for blu ray as there are sep presets in sor sq so i figure they are different (dvd to BD)

I have uploaded a screen grab of my settings inside sor sq that create the m2v file. This is from a quicktime reference file in AVID MC 6.5.

If you can spot anything that you think should be changed, id be grateful.
Cheers
Peter
The link is
6251_sorensonsq.jpg.zip

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 3:37:54 pm

Hi Peter,

What is the length of the video program you're encoding?

Also, I see that the "Max" encoding rate you have set is over 9000, that is pushing the limits of the DVD spec. I would limit that to 8000, but if we know how long the program is, you may need to lower the Target bitrate as well.

I believe the 6000 Target will be good for about 90 minutes - a longer program will require a lower bitrate. If the encoded .m2v file, plus audio, is too large to fit the DVD, Encore would then be forced to transcode the footage.

Is Encore set to the default of "Dolby Digital" audio in the Transcode Settings? Using PCM audio will often cause files to be to big for the DVD, as uncompressed audio takes a lot of space.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 3:52:33 pm

Hi Jeff - that was quick.

q What is the length of the video program you're encoding?
a In this case its 1 hr 55

re bitrates etc. On this project im not wanting to constarin the quality so am making a Dual Layer DVD which gives me up to 8,5 gigs.
Youre right though, perhaps i should drop that max bitrate abit to say 8000?

Is Encore set to the default of "Dolby Digital" audio in the Transcode Settings? Using PCM audio will often cause files to be to big for the DVD, as uncompressed audio takes a lot of space
I get sor squeeze to encode my master wav mix file to an AC3. Much smaller and sounds ggod. this goes into encore without any fightback.

I have upoloaded a few more stills to help you see my settings. Cheers
peter
6252_encorezip.zip

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:01:42 pm

Hi Peter,

I do see one potential issue - the Squeeze encoder is creating the MPEG-2 file as UPPER FIELD, but Encore is set to LOWER FIELD. I'm not sure what a PAL DVD is supposed to be, as I work with NTSC. Appears that lower is the norm, looking at the Encore settings though.

In your Transode settings, I see "Peter DVD", did you make some special settings? Best to use defaults typically.

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:02:40 pm

PS - since you are using a DL disc, I would just use CBR 8000 encoding

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:07:50 pm

That is a good point.
The peter settings is me messingtrying to achieve a good setting.

I i need to persuade encore to do upper field. only Dv is lower field
(mini dv HDV etc) which i dont use. Everything i do is upper field.
Ill look at that.

So Ill look at the encore field order and drop that bit rate.

Many thanks for looking at my screen grabs and your advice.
I usually lurk on the audio pros cow forum whene my background in pro audio is more useful but im also a regualr reader of the dvd page where im learning fast.
Mant thanks
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:10:29 pm

In my own experiments with different MPEG-2 encoders for NTSC, I had tried both upper and lower field, with lower being the default in Encore for me. Using an upper field .m2v file did not cause a transcode, so probably ok there. Possibly the data rate was the issue for you.

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Bill Stephan
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 5:22:29 pm

Jeff,

PAL DVD should be encoded as upper field.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 5:32:41 pm

Thanks Both
plenty for me to try there.
Cheers from across the pond!
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 11, 2013 at 5:58:23 pm

Hi again
Just to try to nail this,
do you know how to change the deafult settings (file/project settings / transcode settings to be upper field. i cant seem to change this anywhere so it stays like that?

But am i right in thinking that what ever settings i apply in the dvd transcode settings drop down will over ride this anyway?
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 12, 2013 at 4:11:57 pm

Hi Peter,

I've not found a way to change the field order preset in Encore. However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have used .m2v files of the both the UFF and LFF variety and Encore does NOT transcode either, so I guess it doesn't care.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 12, 2013 at 5:18:00 pm

Hi Jeff
OK so it would seem that my solution is to ensure that i always get the "dont transcode" to be available (ie the assets dont exceed the capacity of the disc. Therefore it doesnt re transcode my already transcoded material.

1) How do i look at the encore authoring materials and establish exactly how much space that will require, hence allowing me to force sorenson sq to make the m2v assets to the optimum size.(ie space needed before adding video files.)

2) If i select a dl disc author prior to adding the video, presumably encore will allow the "dont transcode@" options availability even when the project is well over 4.7 gig providing it doesnt exceed dl capacity.

3) Am I right in thinking that a DVD is 4.7 and BD 25 gigs, or is the reality different to that?

Cheers
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 12, 2013 at 5:27:37 pm

Hi Peter,

If you search the web for "Bitrate calculator" you will find several options. Most run on JAVA right from the host website, nothing to download or install. Type in some numbers and it gives a result.

The other option that I got from Adobe is to use 560/minutes = rate. This has worked well for me, and I just round down the result a bit to allow overhead for menus and such. For instance 560/120=4.66 so I encode at 4.5 and no worries.

I must admit that I have never used DL so can't share any advice for how that works. I can get 2.5 hours on a 4.7GB disc and make it look good, so never dealt with DL.

Correct that DVD is 4.7GB and Blu-ray is 25GB, however just as with hard drive advertised sizing, actual size is a little less, more like 4.3GB and 23GB in reality.

Note that the "560 formula" is for 4.7GB DVD, not DL or Blu-ray. Also assumes Dolby Digital audio (default in Encore). PCM audio is much larger and can make the project too big for the disc.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Peter Groom
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 12, 2013 at 5:34:43 pm

Hi
yes ive seen bitrate calculators etc, but a calc cant possibly know what menu and sub menu and graphics exist in the dvd authoring project, Its that value befor evido im trying to find. Some authored projects are a lot more complex than others so it must impact on space - or is that insignificant.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Jeff Pulera
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 12, 2013 at 5:42:13 pm

Still menus don't take much space, it's the motion menus that do it. If using animated menu background, add the combined minutes of those into calculation. So if you have a 90-minute video, plus six 30-second animated menu clips, then encode at the rate for 93 minutes of video. This ought to get you close.

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Daniel Ludwig
Re: Building DVD
on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:03:26 am

hey guys,
you should be awared that PAL could be upper AND lower field first. depending on the used codec.

all DV-codecs (DV, DVC-pro25 and 50) are lower, but DVCPRO HD is upper, same as PRO RES, DNX, uncompressed SD/HD.

encore transcode-settings could only be set to lower field, but this wont cause any problem with upper assets, they wont be transcoded.

danny


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