FORUMS: list search recent posts

24fps in, 30fps out?

COW Forums : Adobe Encore DVD

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Rex Polanis
24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 9, 2012 at 6:38:13 pm

Hey I was wondering if anyone else had this issue and what they did to remedy it.

I shoot all my footage with Canon 7D cameras at 1080HD @24fps. When I create my movies in encore and burn the disc to Bluray everything looks great. However, when I burn the same movie to DVD, encore automatically converts my 24fps to 30fps 2-3pulldown and I hate the look of it. Before CS6 I didn't have this problem.

How do I change this? Thank you.

One man with courage makes a majority.

Canon 7D
Sony Vegas Pro 11
Adobe CS6 Master Suite


Return to posts index

Stan Jones
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 9, 2012 at 9:16:26 pm

Encore (the DVD spec?) always puts the 24 in 29.97 with pulldown. This was true before CS6. Does Encore show it as 24? Are you bringing 24 or 23.976?

Stan Jones


Return to posts index

Rex Polanis
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 9, 2012 at 10:27:39 pm

In previous versions the motion blur in the footage looked the same. Now, compared to 24fps, it looks like super excito motion. I am shooting at 23.976.

One man with courage makes a majority.

Canon 7D
Sony Vegas Pro 11
Adobe CS6 Master Suite


Return to posts index


Stan Jones
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 10, 2012 at 4:29:04 am

Okay; what does Encore show the footage as once you import it?

Stan Jones


Return to posts index

Ricky Barrow
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 11, 2012 at 5:39:05 pm

Encore CS4 and CS5 allows me to transcode at 24fps (23.976) - It does not automatically pulldown if you select the proper transcoding settings. We do 24fps DVD's all the time.

Ricky


Return to posts index

Stan Jones
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 11, 2012 at 6:09:09 pm

> Encore CS4 and CS5 allows me to transcode at 24fps (23.976) - It does not automatically pulldown if you select the proper transcoding settings.

I don't know why Rex is not getting the correct look, and I'm wondering if something has changed in the default transcode settings. (I did not think they had.) But Gspot a vob of your 23.976. It will show a fps of 29.970 with 3:2 pulldown. It also shows a "Pics/s" of 23.976, just as mediainfo shows only the 23.976, but Progressive and 2:3 pulldown.

Do you see any difference between CS5/5.5 and CS6?

Stan Jones


Return to posts index


Rob Manning
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 12, 2012 at 6:06:00 pm

Hello Rick,

In CS5, what settings are you, were you actually using?

The preferences box (edit drop down) has the DVD specs hard set allowing no changes.

It says these can be changed at any time from the File drop down, Project settings, but that also defaults allowing no changes for DVD video.

"A project's authoring mode can be changed at any time in the Project Settings dialog box" is tagged at the bottom of the Basic tab in the Project Settings box no matter how it is accessed.

If one uses the File drop down, Edit Quality Presets then there are choices and presets etc.

Questions for you, if you have time.

Is there some magic place where the defaults can actually be reassigned?

If not, do you assign the transcode setting from the Edit Quality Presets then?

If so, which do you use?

The footage we have released plays fine from the DVD in the computer but when put into a TV with a hardware DVD player it is cropped and so far no matter which preset I choose, does not play at full frame whether choosing 4:3 or 16:9.

There seem to be few if any threads out there in Adobe land, so I very much appreciate any answers you might come up with.

Content is all set to 1920-1080 from Premiere, exported as separate (songs) files into MPEG2, before being constructed in Encore.



Thanks,

Rob


Return to posts index

Ricky Barrow
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 12, 2012 at 6:22:02 pm

I may be confused and/or I may have misread the original post. I have done Blu-ray, then switched to DVD - therefore I will transcode twice within Encore, one for Blu-ray and one for DVD. No matter which I am doing, I edit quality presets to have control over transcoding. Say you have 3 assets (videos) File 1 is 720p 59.94, File 2 is 16x9 SD 29.97fps, and File 3 is 720p 23.976 (24fps) - All of these will work fine on DVD. I try to set transcoding as close to the original file as possible, so for File 1 I use: Progressive, Widescreen, 29.97. For File 2 I use: UpperField, Widescreen, 29.97. For File 3 I use: Progressive, Widescreen, 23.976 (24fps).

The DVD does not specify globally what the frame rate is - that is determined by each video file and the fps with which it was transcoded.

Maybe this helps and/or maybe I'm crazy - I may not explain it well, I only know what works for us. :-)

Ricky


Return to posts index

Stan Jones
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 12, 2012 at 6:35:30 pm

> The DVD does not specify globally what the frame rate is - that is determined by each video file and the fps with which it was transcoded.

For timelines, etc, that is all correct; you can mix framerates, and for bluray you can mix pixel sizes. For NTSC DVD, you are, of course, locked at 720x480.

The part that can't be changed is the default transcode setting. There's really no choic for DVD (except max rate and audio format). For BD, once set, you cannot change that for the project.

Rob, in your response to Ricky, it sounds like you're talking about DVD, not BD.

Stan Jones


Return to posts index


Rob Manning
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 12, 2012 at 11:19:40 pm

Yes Stan in this case.

The issue is when the HD content is resolved by/through/into the default DVD aspect ratio, invariably it crops the video segments when played on a typical DVD device, in this case an older Toshiba flat face CRT television.

One forum stated to NOT re-size the content in Premiere, allow the authoring to do that and set the buttons to 16:9 etc. but so far none of the burns have fixed what happens when played on a DVD device.

The caveat is that opening the DVD on a laptop, with VLC etc. gives the correct aspect ratio when the screen is sized.

So far, yikes and bewildered at what should be an automatic process.

Thanks for the comments.

Rob


Return to posts index

Stan Jones
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 1:32:37 am

> The issue is when the HD content is resolved by/through/into the default DVD aspect ratio, invariably it crops the video segments when played on a typical DVD device, in this case an older Toshiba flat face CRT television.

That can be the setup on the DVD player. If not that, something is wrong with the transcode settings.

> The caveat is that opening the DVD on a laptop, with VLC etc. gives the correct aspect ratio when the screen is sized.

Software players may not display correctly - including when they show the content the way you intended, but not the way a DVD player will show.

Stan Jones


Return to posts index

Rob Manning
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 12, 2012 at 11:21:52 pm

Ricky Thanks,

Looks like settings is a subset of acuity within the 720 wrapper then and does not alter that even within the Quality settings.

I do appreciate the comments.

Thanks,

Rob


Return to posts index


Rex Polanis
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 6:25:10 pm

No one has addressed my original post, at least not in a language I can understand.
I shoot all my footage at 1080 @23.976 and import it to premiere with the HDSLR 1080 @ 23.976 preset. I edit all my footage in premiere and export to H.264 BluRay. I then create my disc in encore and render out as a disc image for BluRay and then followed by DVD image. I than burn my disc. BluRay motion blur always looks fine but DVD motion blur looks different. I can tell that the fps is bring changed. How can I set Encore to render so that the motion blur retains the original look?

One man with courage makes a majority.

Canon 7D
Sony Vegas Pro 11
Adobe CS6 Master Suite


Return to posts index

Ricky Barrow
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 7:41:35 pm

I'm sorry - I have no knowledge to help you - never heard of this "bluray motion blur" or "DVD motion blur".

If you want to keep your 23.976 fps then you must edit quality presets and manually select the transcode, in Encore, to 23.976fps - you cannot use default nor apply an edited transcode as the default.

Your original posts said Encore automatically does a pulldown, changing from 24 to 30 - I simply said you can override that by editing quality presets.

Good luck

Ricky


Return to posts index

Rex Polanis
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 10:37:58 pm

Really? You have never heard of motion blur? OK. When you record footage at a higher framer rate the motion tends to look more vivid or sharp and unrealistic. This is the result of a natural phenomenon called Persistence of Vision. The human eye can only take in so much information at a time and must reset in order for the brain to process the information. Our eyes actually "reset" about 24 times a second. This biological quirk is what makes the stop motion animation work otherwise our eyes would see the choppiness of animation. I hope that helps.

So I went to the "edit" menu and clicked "project settings" and of course the settings I need to change are grayed out and not accessible. I can not change DVD framrate. Is there a round about way to do this?

One man with courage makes a majority.

Canon 7D
Sony Vegas Pro 11
Adobe CS6 Master Suite


Return to posts index


Ricky Barrow
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 10:45:13 pm

I have of course heard of motion blur - just not in the transcode setting for DVD. I know they exist everywhere else in basically all edit systems, Adobe AE ... etc. Thanks for the info. but I do understand about the human eye and television. :-)

You do not go to project settings. Inside Encore, you go to File drop down menu and "Edit quality settings" or right click on the asset in Encore and select "Transcode Settings" and in the dialogue that opens there is an "Edit Quality Presets"

Ricky


Return to posts index

Ricky Barrow
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 10:46:42 pm

Again, it is not a "DVD" frame rate - it is a video or an asset frame rate.

Ricky


Return to posts index

Rex Polanis
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Dec 13, 2012 at 10:53:48 pm

Ok, found the menu that you told me. Yeah, the settings are correct in there. Strange. I wonder why the software is doing this? Anytime I burn a disc the footage on DVD looks like it was shoot at 29.97 but BluRay looks 23.976?

One man with courage makes a majority.

Canon 7D
Sony Vegas Pro 12
Adobe CS6 Master Suite


Return to posts index

Alex Grene
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 1:09:36 pm

@ Ricky Barrow:

I am having nearly the same exact issue as Rex here, but I am using CS 5.1. You said you encode 24fps DVDs all the time, so I'd love to hear from you on this. When I go into File -> Edit Quality Presets, I can create a customized series of settings, and click OK to save them - but in the Project menu, next to the Premier Project Sequence, it says the DVD Transcode Settings are still at "Automatic." I don't know how to select the saved settings that I created under the Edit Quality Presets box - it's probably really simple, but I'm new at this. Can you help?
-Alex


Return to posts index

Ricky Barrow
Re: 24fps in, 30fps out?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 1:48:06 pm

on a pc, right click and choose/select "Transcode Settings" - then you should see all of your presets

Ricky


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]