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Bluray Motion Menu/Disc Authoring - HD1080p

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James Heliker
Bluray Motion Menu/Disc Authoring - HD1080p
on Oct 12, 2010 at 6:04:27 pm

All!

I'm at my wits end and am a new poster here at creativecow. I've been reading your forums however for great advice over the last few years. I'm currently working on a Blu-ray disc authoring project in Adobe Encore CS5 (Mac) and seeing some disturbing results that I'm not sure can? be fixed by staying in Encore.

I have multiple menus (28) on the disc, almost all of them have a motion video asset (1080p .MOV file) assigned to them, and a loop point set for so-called "seamless" looping. When previewing within Encore the gap/black jump between intro and loop is somewhat acceptable, perhaps 1 second, although I'd LOVE to remove all the black entirely, like other discs that "freeze" until the menu comes up.

However on multiple players with my BD-RE, I see HORRIBLE screen re-sync delays of 1-3 seconds with multiple flashes of black/menu before the buttons become clearly visible on my menu.

I'm wondering if one or all of the following are true:

A. Playing the HD content in-menu is causing the delays (optical media being pretty slow, etc) or
B. Encore just can't author a Bluray "optimally" to save its life or
C. There's some setting, configuration, or optimal transcode setting for HD menu backgrounds that will make my issue go away?

Secondarily, I'm seeing very inconsistent results with regards to the button ordering/routing on menus, ESPECIALLY on Popup Menus.

Any help? My client is not a happy camper and I'm not too pleased for having paid for this great new adobe product right now.

Thanks in advance,

- James Heliker
james.heliker@gmail.com


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Jon Geddes
Re: Bluray Motion Menu/Disc Authoring - HD1080p
on Oct 12, 2010 at 7:48:36 pm

Hi James,

I'll see if I can address your concerns.

First of all, the way Encore programs loop points for Blu-ray discs is different than how it programs DVD's.

For a Blu-ray disc, all the video content before the loop point is cut and placed into a separate timeline/menu. This is all done behind the scenes after you press the build button. So, when the menu is loaded, it first loads the intro part, before the loop point, then once it reaches the end of that, it has to load a separate menu for after the loop point.

A DVD disc can actually have the intro sequence (before the loop point) as part of the same menu background, so that once the loop point is reached, there is absolutely no pause at all, and is completely seamless.

The problem you are experiencing is actually unique to each Blu-ray player. Most Blu-ray players will freeze the last frame of the previous menu/transition until the next one is loaded, making a much more seamless jump, and can be almost entirely unnoticed if you know a few tricks like fading the audio down right at the loop point, and not having fast motion in the menu.

Unfortunately there are some players that will display black during that loading time. Sometimes if you burn at too fast of a speed and there are many errors on the disc that have to be deciphered, that half second of blackness can be extended. Also, its possible a firmware update to the player could correct that issue.

Panasonic Blu-ray players work great with burned Blu-ray discs, and you should not see any problems when using those.

Obviously the ideal situation would be for Adobe Encore's development team to figure out how to program the disc so that it can combine the intro with the menu properly and not have to split them up.

There is also an issue with the Flash Export feature not being able to start a menu from the loop point, which can create some navigation problems but we won't get into that now.

Regarding the button navigation, this should always be done manually, so I'm not sure why there is a need to complain about the automatic routing. Hopefully I didn't misunderstand your problem with this.

Jon Geddes
http://www.precomposed.com


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Daniel Ludwig
Re: Bluray Motion Menu/Disc Authoring - HD1080p
on Oct 12, 2010 at 8:29:15 pm

james,
I don´t know exactly how you set the intro-parts of your menu, but you´re having a 1sec-(black-)delay beween all clips if they are not in a seamless flagged playlist.

so if you´re jumping between titles you´ll always have a short (black) delay. I´ve never seen a possibilty to set seamless motion-menus within encore CS5.

if you need to create seamless working menus you might need to use another BD-authoring-application.

it´s a BD-spec-thing, no more, no less.

it´s a bit more complex to describe it in a simple way!

if you´ve got further questions, you can also sent a privat mail.

cheers

danny


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James Heliker
Re: Bluray Motion Menu/Disc Authoring - HD1080p
on Oct 12, 2010 at 9:38:52 pm

Thanks Jon and Danny

Specifically with the motion menu looping/intro issue, I understand what you've described and that sucks. I'll check different players to see how acceptable the issue is in "the real world".

As far as the button routing goes, I *am* manually assigning buttons (Command + 7) on a per menu basis. But, between saves of the same Encore/Blu-ray project, the assignments are getting "lost" and given seemingly random values. It's not consistently the way I leave it - and I"m saving my project every chance I get.

Thanks for the help!!!

- James Heliker
james.heliker@gmail.com


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Daniel Ludwig
Re: Bluray Motion Menu/Disc Authoring - HD1080p
on Oct 13, 2010 at 6:41:25 am

hi james,
I have created a few BDs using the manual assignment and it worked well over here.

are you sure, you turned off the auto-routing?

according to seamless playback of menus I could say that menus for BD were created in a different way, as jon mentioned before.

the IG (interactive)-stream, is the stream that containing the informations that you know as button-overlay within DVD. it is much more complex than button-overlay and can have in/out-effects as well, but this can´t be done with encore.

creating IG-streams (or better graphics for it) is a lot work, much more than creating a button-overlay for DVD.

maybe there will be a FULL mac-BD-authoring-system in future! rivergate software is working on it.

cheers

danny


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