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Motion Menu pauses at loop point

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John Morfesis
Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 15, 2009 at 3:13:03 pm

Need help on Blu Ray project. My motion menu pauses for a second at the loop point and then continous to loop. My motion video is an mpg2 Blu Ray video from Premier Pro and it is 41 seconds long. I have set the loop point at 4 seconds and the menu plays good on the Encore's preview but when we burn a Blu Ray disck the motion menu as I said earlier it pauses right at the loop point for a second. The same thing happens when I use avi for the motion menu. The motion video that I use has no audio. I have a seperate same length wav audio.
The loop point is there so that the highlited buttons does not show at the start of the menu till the annimated buttons rest to place which is about 3 second on the motion video.
I have windows xp pro and CS3
I contacted Adobe and so far no answer.
Any help will be appreciated.


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Jeff Bellune
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 15, 2009 at 3:30:23 pm

That is the expected behavior as the laser seeks to the loop point.

Check out any commercial DVD - they do the same thing.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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John Morfesis
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 16, 2009 at 9:38:34 pm

Hi Jeff,
We have made the exact project on standard dvd and have no problem. Again, the problem that we have is not when it pauses at the end of the motion video menu to start looping again.
The motion menu is 40 seconds long and we have set the loop point at 4 seconds which is the time that we want the button highlight to show up, as the motion video starts playing when it reaches the 4 seconds where the loop point is and where we want the buttons to activate and the highlight on the buttons to be shown the video pauses for 1 to 2 seconds and then it continues till the end of the duration of the motion video which is 40 seconds long and then it pauses as it's supposed to do to go back to the loop point but that is not our issue.
Our client gets the same video on blu-ray and standard dvd. All settings are the same and on the standard dvd we have no pause at the 4 second loop point and the motion video plays fluently for 40 seconds and at the 4 second mark the buttons appear along with the highlight. On the blu-ray is where our problem lies.
On the motion video we bascically have the buttons to fade in between 3 to 4 seconds into the video and that is where our 4 second loop point is so that the highlight of the menu buttons don't appear at the beginning till the 4 second mark. Obviously to accomplish this we have turned off the eye off from the layers of the psd menu.
Are we to assume that this is only a blu-ray limitation and if so is there a different approach so that get the same results.
Thanks,
John


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Jeff Bellune
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 17, 2009 at 12:07:25 am

Hi John,

Sorry that I misunderstood your first post.

[John Morfesis] "the motion video starts playing when it reaches the 4 seconds where the loop point is"

Please clarify: are the first 4 seconds a 4-second long fade-up?

[John Morfesis] "Obviously to accomplish this we have turned off the eye off from the layers of the psd menu"

How does a static .psd menu fit into all of this?

How did you construct the video? Did you use Premiere? After Effects? There is an old bug (that shouldn't be seen in CS3, but you never know) where selecting "Optimize Stills" in the sequence and/or export settings in Premiere could cause problems in Encore.

Could the problem be with the BD player that you are using? My Panasonic BD-30 is very slow when going from menu to menu or menu to timeline, or when any playback operation like Pause or Rewind is performed. You should test on at least one other BD player, and preferably two - one software and one hardware.

If neither of the above apply or solve the problem, then can you delay the loop point by a second or two to see if that makes any difference?

-Jeff


The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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John Morfesis
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 17, 2009 at 2:17:53 pm

The project is a MPEG 2 Blu Ray and we import as assets the video and audio. We drag them to the newly created timeline and on the timeline we made 8 chapters.
Then we created a PSD menu with 8 button and we link the buttons to the chapters. So far so good.
Then we wanted to replace the static background of the menu with video and audio. So we brought in one 40 seconds long mpeg2 blu Ray compliant video and wav audio and we use the video and audio pick whip to add the 40 second video and audio to the background of the menu. So now as a menu we have the motion video and audio playing on the background along with the buttons from the PSD menu.
It all looks good but we wanted the buttons from the PSD menu to fade in at 3 seconds into the video and the duration of the fade in to be a second long.
I hope you still with me.
So to do this we had to animate the buttons. So we use the Create After effects Composition in Encore and automatically converted the menu into a layered composition in After Effects.
So in After Effects we animated the buttons to start fade in at 3 second. We simply use the opacity with key frames.
Then we brought in the newly created video from After Effects into encore and we use the pick whip to replace the video background of the menu with the new one.
So now we hide the layers of the PSD menu by going to the layers panel so that they do not appear over my background video.
And here is where the problems starts.
When we play the menu it plays fine except the highlight of the button that it is active it shows on my background video before the animated buttons come up. Remember the first 3 seconds of the video is just the video and the animated button fade in after the 3 seconds into the video.
So we put a 4 second loop. By doing that we can now see the menu video playing without the buttons up to 3 seconds, at 3 seconds the buttons shows up and at 4 seconds the highlight of the button shows up.
That is exactly what we want. And it plays fine on the preview in Encore.
But when we burn a Blu Ray disc and we play the menu the video and audio pauses for a second or two, right where the loop point is at 4 seconds, right where the highlight of the buttons is about to come up.
And that is the problem that small pause of the motion video menu.
Iam not sure whether I can describe this any better.
The same exact steps on a standard DVD the motion video plays fine no pauses, fluently with no problems. And it is the same video and menu just on standard def dvd. This client gets the same project on DVD and Blu ray.
By changing the loop point from 4 seconds to any other number still don’t help. At 8 seconds loop the pause is at 8 seconds.
Play back in on my PP3 and software Power DVD on my computer. All the same.
By using avi video from premiere pro instead of blu ray mpeg2 still don't help.
Any thoughts?
Thanks again


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Jeff Bellune
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 17, 2009 at 4:07:46 pm

Hi John,

Thanks for all the detailed info. I don't see anything in your workflow that would cause this problem. It's possible that the problem is in how Encore is handling the assets and the media cache.

I'd like you to make a copy of your current project by going to File | Save As... and give the new copy a different name.

Close Encore and then re-launch it. Load the new copy of the project. Delete the motion menu that is giving you trouble.

Save the project and close Encore again. Then launch it again.

Go to Edit | Preferences | Media and click on the button to clean the media cache database. Click OK.

Reconstruct the problem menu in the new project. Build the project and burn to BD-RE so you don't make any coasters. Test in your hardware and software BD players again.

Let us know if things get any better. If this doesn't work, then I'm out of ideas.

-Jeff


The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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John Morfesis
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 17, 2009 at 6:36:58 pm

Hi Jeff
Thanks for staying with me.
Some updates:
I have a CyberLink Hi-Def Suite and on the bottom there is a progress bar.
When I play the menu you can see the loading bar loading the video and it pauses for a second as the bar goes blank and it starts loading again afrer the loop point . It seems that there are two seperate renders or streams for the the same menu just because there is a loop point.
Read this post further down on the same forum
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/145/866397
Why does Encore create (and play) two different menu streams?
I will try to download a smaller version of my project to Adobe's FTP and see if they can come up with any answer.
I will keep you posted.
Thank you.


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Larry Applegate
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 17, 2009 at 7:27:13 pm

Hi John,

We are working on adding solutions for Encore Blu-ray authoring to our BluStreak Premaster and BluStreak Burner applications:

http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=14741

First, it may be that you are seeing a CS3 problem, it was particularly bad with Blu-ray output, and some of the problems were fixed in CS4. If you would like, I would be happy to test this theory, if you could mail me a cut-down version of your project.

Another neat thing about Blu-ray is that it can play the same short clip over and over seamlessly by calling it out a bunch of times in the playlist, without adding any additional video or audio. So you could take your 41-second clip and play it 20 times, and it would play for 13 minutes before noticing any delay. The professional authoring systems use this technique frequently, and it is a feature we are adding to BluStreak 1.1.

Hope this information helps.

Regards,

Larry Applegate
http://blustreak.dvdafteredit.com


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Larry Applegate
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Aug 17, 2009 at 7:38:52 pm

Some additional information after reading your previous posts more carefully:

The reason that it rendered two copies of your menu is the loop point. The most efficient playback is to play the entire menu through once, then link to the second menu which omits the fancy stuff at the beginning, and just loops thereafter.

Perhaps Encore is not placing the 2nd version of the menu to immediately follow the first, and that is the reason for the longer delay. This will also be affected by what you use to burn the image for testing. If Encore assigned a lower clip number to the 2nd menu, Toast would probably put it in front.

In BluStreak Burner, we give you complete control over the physical placement of the clips.



Regards,

Larry Applegate
http://blustreak.dvdafteredit.com


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Mark Stuart
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Jun 18, 2010 at 1:47:51 pm

Same problem with Encore CS5. Googled and found this old thread.

DVD output from encore works perfect, Blu-ray is bugged.

Change same project to Blu-ray, previews perfect but when output to a folder or disc. Motion menu plays for a second to my loop point 1 second in, pauses then carries on after a bit of a jump. The problem is only on first play of the menu. When the menu gets to the end (2 min 33 sec) in my case it loops back to the loop point 1 sec in which is correct.

Looking inside the BDMV/STREAM folder there is 2 menu .m2ts files. A bigger file size one which has the 1 sec extra and another that starts at the looping point. It would appear that Encore is incorrectly telling the menu to switch assets during the first play at the looping point. This bug is only with blu-ray only. DVD is OK.

My blu-ray output has another unrelated problem. One of the menu buttons links to a chapter playlist. When the button is activated, there is a pause and then returns back to the same menu playing the first time round bug above again. The chapter of the movie it should go to is not played. Again, this functionality works fine with DVD. Double checked all links and all OK. Again this previews correct in Encore disc preview. Problem is only on blu-ray folder/disc output.

Are these blu-ray bugs that have been around since CS3?

Regards
Mark


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Paul Moon
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 2, 2010 at 4:14:08 am

I'm shocked and annoyed that this elementary error exists in Encore CS5 for Blu-Rays only. I get this every time, and it's utterly unacceptable. It's not the kind of thing that Adobe wouldn't have noticed during testing (and seems to have persisted well before the CS5 version). It's pretty arrogant to just say "oh well" and pass over this dead end for disc authoring. Lame.


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Jason Murray
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 18, 2012 at 11:08:01 pm

I have same issue & I'm just using After effect then importing it into Encore. it only does it with Blue-ray loop point is not seamless like it is with DVD. I saved a disk image thing it might be my blue-ray play but it does same thing on my computer with a image file mounted.I heard its in with the programming for Blue-ray & cant be fixed unless the programmers fix the issue with an update. but there is a program called BDedit that you can fix it by saving project as a folder & importing it into BDedit & after burning it using another burning software.


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Jonah Guelzo
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 2, 2011 at 2:59:21 pm

John,
I have spent insane amounts of hours authoring a Blu Ray project for a football documentary... I racked my brain about why it ALWAYS freezes for a sec when hitting the loop set point during the menu when it NEVER happens on a DVD.

I spent hours on the phone with ADOBE tech support on the issue, we screen shared and he tried to essentially duplicate the particular situation on his end and guess what??? THEY HAD THE SAME PROBLEM ON THEIR END.

He told me that he was going to get their engineers on it because it is a SOFTWARE issue. Not just a specific error to me.

So to recap John...

You are not doing anything wrong... ENCORE is just quite faulty... it is funny to me that Adobe let something like this slide through.

Let me know if you have any other questions...

-Jonah


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Paul Moon
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 2, 2011 at 3:51:12 pm

Adobe absolutely doesn't care. Bug requests have been filed for at least two years, and all we can hear are crickets. They acknowledge the problem, we know it's a problem, they keep collecting our money (now for CS5.5), but this massive bug is a joke to them. Trust me.


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Jonah Guelzo
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 4, 2011 at 10:36:09 pm

Fellow Authoring Junkies... I did try something that at least works correctly in preview... Render out your motion menu content at 60i... I transcoded my motion content using adobe media encoder to ProRes 422 at 60i... and thus far there is no ridiculous glitchy pause when hitting the loop set point... However I have not proven if it works when actually burned as Encore is deciding to be a bay and likes to throw fits for no reason not letting me build.

Who else in this forum is fed up with Encore and it's major reliability issues... If you throw anything that resembles a slightly professionally authored DVD/Blu-Ray, Encore can't handle it. Nothing urks me more than when a program does not do what it is supposed to do. ADOBE needs to iron out the software issues, not us the users having to find our own workarounds through countless hours of frustration and literally pulling our hair out thinking we're doing something wrong when most times it's Encore deciding to have quirky malfunctions...


Cheers...

-Jonah


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Joel Cotlhorpe
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 28, 2011 at 12:33:44 am

Apple DVD Studio Pro does not pause at the loop point.
I am using Encore now for Bluray and I really hate the pause.

FIX IT ADOBE!!!


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John Morfesis
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 28, 2011 at 12:09:43 pm

My understanding is that Aple DVD Studio Pro cannot do Blu Ray Discs and we had no problems when we burn a DVD, only on Blu Rays we heve seen the pauses.
Check my previous post.
The same exact steps on a standard DVD the motion video plays fine no pauses, fluently with no problems. And it is the same video and menu just on standard def dvd. This client gets the same project on DVD and Blu ray.
I have CS5 and I was wondering if Adobe have fixed this problem.
But then again if they fixed this problem Iam sure other problems will come up.


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Mark Stuart
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Nov 24, 2011 at 6:02:52 pm

I doubt this loop point freeze has been fixed but anyone tried recently with CS5.5 can confirm?

Regards
Mark


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Mark Stuart
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on May 18, 2012 at 3:24:14 pm

Just tested Encore CS6 on Mac and still bugged. Doesn't look like Adobe have been doing any development at all in 4+ years on the BD output side of things. Looks like the inner works were locked down when Adobe bought from Sonic many moons ago... Adobe just developing the interface and integration with other Adobe apps. Shame the re-write to 64 bit has converted the old bugs across...

2 Pass VBR H.264 >25mbs throwing up same error messages. 1 pass CBR 25mb/s fine.

Regards
Mark


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Paul Moon
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on May 18, 2012 at 3:37:07 pm

I'm sure that this will sound like utter paranoia, but especially with CS6 I continue to believe that the media -- whether blogs, news organizations or tech trades -- are somehow in-the-bag for Adobe. Either that, or these outlets for expression simply aren't being operated by people who actually use Adobe products on a day-to-day basis, frequent bugs/crashes and all. It's no coincidence that Adobe has a formalized corporate strategy of peppering the world with so-called "evangelists" -- and with that behavior, you get a lot of blind faith...


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Jason Murray
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 9, 2012 at 4:05:34 am

A regular DVD disk with Motion menu will Loop Seamlessly but if it's a Blue-ray disk the Loop point will pause for a second before continuing.so if you burn a DVD that has a mation menu & it links to another motion menu it will connect Seamlessly to the other menu but if it's a Blu-ray disk it will pause.


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H. Paul Moon
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Sep 10, 2012 at 2:37:30 am

Actually, we're not even talking about that level of complexity. Adobe has failed at bringing its Blu-Ray authoring up to bare minimum spec here, where the loop point is back to the SAME menu (compared to a different one as you posit). All Blu-Ray menus are capable of doing this without a gap -- just not any ones created by Encore, for the past half decade.


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Don Sandusky
Re: Motion Menu pauses at loop point
on Feb 2, 2013 at 4:50:41 pm

The problem with the Motion Menu pausing at the loop point has always been an Adobe Encore CS problem. I reported it to Adobe a few times three or four years ago, but they either don't care or they're also stuck finding a solution. Back when the Adobe CS series was first introduced, I realized that Encore was the weak link in the CS chain and really wasn't ready to be prime time player in the DVD authoring business. Here it is in 2013, and there has been some good changes in the product, but what bothers me the most is that Adobe apparently doesn't read these blogs. A wealth of information is contained here that helps everyone, including Adobe. It sounds like there is an opportunity for a third party software vendor to come to the rescue to solve this problem.
Reading the previous entries, I will try the BDEdit approach. I will let you know if anything positive happens.


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