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Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash

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Tim Kolb
Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Jan 29, 2009 at 4:27:59 am

I see a user a month back posted about this...but no clear answer.

Encore CS4 seems to do everything beautifully, except create a timeline. Any timeline creation instantly crashes out Encore CS4. I can't open a project with a timeline without crashing...it makes no difference what sort of assets are in the project. I can create complex menus, dynamic link out to Photoshop...no problem.

I can't make a timeline or dynamic link a PPro sequence...

Currently dead in the water...anybody got any ideas?

Dell M90 Laptop
2 GB RAM
T7400 2.16 GHz
XP Pro SP 3
NVIDIA QFX 2500M





TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Rajesh Lamba
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Jan 29, 2009 at 6:47:48 am

Can you update your nvidia graphics card drivers? There were some issues discussed on adobe forum with old nvidia graphics card drivers which seems to go away after updating to the latest drivers





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minu sharma
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Jan 29, 2009 at 6:54:22 am

Hi Tim ,

Can you update your nvidia graphics card drivers? There were some issues discussed on adobe forum with old nvidia graphics card drivers which seems to go away after updating to the latest drivers

Please respond if this solves your problem .

Thanks
Minu



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Tim Kolb
Re: Thanks...NVIDIA Drivers
on Jan 29, 2009 at 3:41:28 pm

Thanks guys. It did turn out I was running far older drivers than I'd realized, though honestly I don't really think much about Open GL cards with DVD authoring...

Also...I've typically NOT been able to run the most up-to-date NVIDIA drivers on my workstation as typically the Adobe Certified drivers are 2-3 versions back.

I did see the thread with the advice on the Adobe forums, but I did not see a post confirming that it solved the issue.

Thanks again.



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Jeff Hall
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Jan 31, 2009 at 12:26:29 pm

I to am having the same issue with Encore CS4 but have current drivers for my Display Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 Toxic ver. I'm opening Premiere Pro CS4 with the default presets of HDV Capture, HDV 1080i30 software only mode. I'm capturing from my Canon HV20 using firewire HDV out 1440 x 1080. All goes well during the editing process but when I Dynamic Link and playback in Encore CS4 I observe dropped frames or stop and starts in Encore timeline sequence. If I continue to play timeline Encore will hang and even crash. While still running Encore I can go back to Premiere Pro and play the timeline sequence with no issues. I will mention that I have the Matrox RT.X2 installed. But when starting a project I'm doing software only and disabling RT.X2 hardware playback. If I remove all effects in the timeline sequence and then Dynamic link to Encore the playback is normal with no effects. If I remove the Dynamic Linked timeline from Encore and export the Premiere Pro CS4 project using Adobe Media Encoder CS4 with a setting of MPEG 2 Blu-ray 1440 x 1080i 29.97 High Quality. I than import this MPEG2 back into Adobe Encore CS4 and it plays without dropping frames or hang-ups. I've even did a complete build on a separate drive without the Matrox RTX2 installed and only Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium and have same issue.

Thanks for any imput

Build

Case: Coolmaster-830
Op System: Vista Ultima 64 Bit
Edit Suite: Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium Line Upgrade
Adobe Premiere Pro CS 4.0.1 update before installing RT.X2 Card and 4.0 tools
Performed updates on all Adobe Production Premium Products as of 01/12/2009
Matrox RTX2 4.0 Tools
Main Display: Dell 3007 30"
DVI Monitor: Dell 2408WFP 24"
MB: ASUS P5E3 Deluxe/WiFi-AP LGA 775 Intel X38
Display Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 Toxic ver.
PS: Corsair|CMPSU-1000HX 1000W
CPU: INTEL Quad Core Q9650 3G
MEM: 2Gx4|Corsair TW3X4G1333C9DHXR DDR3 (8 Gigs Total)
1 Sys Drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB
Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
2 Raid 0: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Using Intel's integrared Raid Controller on MB



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Tim Kolb
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Jan 31, 2009 at 5:39:53 pm

All you're seeing is the extra load caused by the unrendered effects on the PPro timeline. PPro may be able to run the timleine, but Encore is an additional layer of dyanamic-linked overhead.

You could probably play back SD footage dynamic linked to a PPro sequence, but unrendered HD with effects, particularly on a temporally compressed file like HDV is simply going to take some resources...

As you found out in your tests, rendering out a source file for Encore instead of dynamic-linking to the PPro sequence solves the problem.




TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Larry S. Evans II
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 2, 2009 at 7:39:45 pm

Tim,

Wondering if you've had nay luck with this. I've got it happening on two machines. One does in fact have NVidia drivers which are probably older in order to play nice with my Lightwave. But the other machine doesn't have hardware OpenGL. Everything else plays nice except Encore on both machines.

Any info is appreciated. This will become a real problem in a few weeks.

Larry

Larry S. Evans II

Executive Producer

Digital I Productions


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Tim Kolb
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 2:45:45 am

Larry,

can you be specific about the workflow...i.e. loading PPro sequences or just loading clips? If they're clips are they DV? HDV? already compressed to MPEG2? H264? etc...

Note everything you can think of...




TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Larry S. Evans II
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 3:52:33 am

Well, the shortest answer is that upgrading the NVidia drivers on the one machine appears to have resolved the issue. However, on the other machine I cannot now even start Encore without it crashing, and Premiere seems also to collapse when trying to load objects into the timeline.

This behavior follows the installation of the first set of updates from Adobe, and I have noted some other people in the Adobe forums reporting a similar issue. This appears to be a bug of a collosal nature with some machines. I'm happy i have one I can use, but this is clearly not an "improvement".

Any idea on rolling back an Adobe update? Never had to do it before so I'm not sure if it's even possible.

Larry S. Evans II

Executive Producer

Digital I Productions


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Tim Kolb
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 4:21:50 am

Hmmm... I may not have the update in question...though updating my NVIDIA drivers took care of Encore.

I did have serious runnability problems with PPro CS4 until I got rid of Panda Antivirus...

Before getting rid of Panda, i couldn't even open a sequence in Ppro...but i could import clips and the app ran until I attempted to create a sequence.




TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Larry S. Evans II
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 7:27:39 pm

Well, I had not suspected the anti-virus app to be part of the problem, but I will look into that. I'm about to the point of deciding that perchance I have pushed this older machine as far as possible without upgrading some features-most likely the video card.

In fairness, I spent the better part of the morning pouring through the Premiere CS4 user forums at Adobe and I do not appear to be alone in this, nor does it seem that my somewhat antiquated video card would be the sole culprit. There are folks who are having the same problem whose cards will run rings around mine. Further, it seems the suggested "fixes" don't have any logical connection to a solution or to each other. These included:

Font compatibility issues -remove fonts and replace until you find the "bad" one. . . This was suggested (repeatedly and adamantly) by someone who was lucky enough to have it work on his/her system (which may have undergone some other change unbeknownst to them). They couldm't identitfy a specific font, but they were sure that everyone else who was complaining about it had the same problem. I tend to discount this as highly unlikely, and I have hundreds of fonts installed, as I'm sure do most designers.

Log in under a new User Account -I suspect this may be a blanket "you're running Vista aren't you?" response, because if one account has user privileges adequate to run Premiere then a new one would likely have no more permissions for that user. However, if this were simply cleaning up a bad configuration stored in the user profile (my suspicion) would it not be better to destroy the bad config?

The common thread I saw in 99% of the posts was that the 4.0.1 upgrade patch was the cause of the problem regardless of system, and many systems ran CS3 without error (as did both of mine) and CS4 unpatched (ditto, at least as far as Premiere and media encoder, didn't try Encore until it was too late).

Unfortunately it appears the only way to get back to the pre-4.0.1 patch is to do an un-install/re-install which with Master Collection takes about a day.

If anyone knows of a better way to backgrade from an Adobe update I'd love to hear about it.

Larry S. Evans II

Executive Producer

Digital I Productions


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Tim Kolb
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 7:57:18 pm

yes, several people have brought up the last update...I'm running Encore 4.01.48 now without these issues, so I don't have much to add to the conversation in that way...




TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Larry S. Evans II
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 8:38:08 pm

As I said, upgrading the video drivers on the one machine with the NVidia card did completely resolve the problem (at least as far as my present uses go) so it would appear to be some combination of video driver and the 4.0.1 patch and some other X-factor that is affecting a number of different configurations.

At any rate, I am functional on one unit, and am fully willing to admit that the other one may just need a card upgrade. Fortunately I have one I can test in a day or so, but if that doesn't do it, then I have to go chasing ghosts. Luckily I try to keep both machines fairly parallel in terms of fonts, log-ins, and service patches because I move a lot of work between them. That pretty much leaves hardware specific drivers (which would be what most people are thinking anyway).

Will post here if I find any solution. Thanks for replying.

Larry S. Evans II

Executive Producer

Digital I Productions


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Jeff Hall
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 10, 2009 at 11:39:00 pm

Tim,
I would agree with Larry Evans and thanks for your responce. The question is....whats the difference between Premiere Pro CS4 and Encore CS4 when playing back the same file structure. Encore seems to be very resource hungary even when open independently of Pre Pro CS4. In other words I only have Encore running but have the same issues. If Adobe is serious about supporting a seamless process moving back and forth between both applications using Dynamic Link this needs to work better.

Again Thanks



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Tim Kolb
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 11, 2009 at 2:47:22 am

Are you loading a PPro szequence or a clip?

If you're loading a sequence, PPro is launching a "headless" version (check your task manager, that's what they call it...)to interpret the sequence file...



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Jeff Hall
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 12, 2009 at 8:51:52 pm

Tim,

I'm using Dynamic Link to send the entire timeline which includes sequences and transitions. It can be as simple as 2 or 3 seq. with a couple of transistions. If I attempt to play back the entire Timeline in Encore it will crash at times. Having said this, I did discover that I was using a version of Mother Board Bios that was beta. It did cause memory test 2.11 to fail. I went back to current Bios and all Memory is now tesing ok. This may have been causing Blue Screen Crashes.I hav enot seen since.

I now see the headless process you had mentioned. So your suggesting that Encore is still dependent on Pre Pro even if running Encore on its own? Both applications are running around 500k of memory. Whats odd is if I run a rendered out version of the project without the Pre Pro Headless in the background Encore is now up to 1,500K. Almost 3 times what it normally runs with Pre Pro non rendered Dynamic Linked timeline.

Again thanks for helping me understand the interface between these two applications.



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Tim Kolb
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 13, 2009 at 12:14:59 am

Encore will use more memory if it's available. Each Adobe app would love to have 2GB under ideal conditions...in Windows XP, this is usually not possible.

If PPro headless is running to load the sequences, then the two apps have to share what they can get...and when one or more apps run into a memory limitation when one is trying to serve data to another...we all fall down.

When you have a PPro timeline with Dynaimc linked AE comps that you Dynaimc Link into PPro...that will get interesting.



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Larry S. Evans II
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Feb 13, 2009 at 3:57:54 pm

I think it's more accurate to say that Encore and Premiere are "sharing" the timeline component library (as well as others possibly).

From a programing standpoint this actually makes good sense in that you only have to write the code once, and presumably any fixes just apply to the one module. Unfortunately, that means any "breaks" break both systems, as well as any others that are dependent.

I've frequently run across the "headless" app in 3D operations, where one application is "embedded" in another (Poser to Vue, Vue to Lightwave, PoserPro to Lightwave). I have frequent memory errors from these arrangements, largely due to memory management issues rather than the amount of available memory.

That is, it's not how much memory that is being used, but how the system is calling and releasing it. X amount of memory may be allocated to a given application, but if that memory doesn't have a contiguous chunk the proper size to hold the data being written to it, then the chunk heads out into virtual RAM (i.e. it gets written out to the drive). Since Premiere and Encore also appear to be using the GPU and video memory for some of their processing of the timeline (based on some of the crashes I've had) you've got even more fractured memory to keep track of.

It's a nice idea to have an application suite where you can run "hot" all your files back to their genesis in vector and paint apps as well as the video source, without having to take the time to create those pesky intermediate files (that later you can't remember if you need to archive or not). I'd love to have that workflow. But it needs to be reliable and not require a HAL9000 to run it.

Hope your memory problems go away with the BIOS fix. Judging from a number of the BBS out there. CS4 apparently has some demons yet to exorcise.

Larry S. Evans II

Executive Producer

Digital I Productions


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Javier Villarreal
Re: Encore CS4 Timeline-Crash
on Jun 3, 2009 at 11:44:08 pm

I've had luck with having Premiere open while attempting to open the Encore project. It seems to help when I have the project open in Premiere. Not sure why, but it has helped with the crashing of Encore.


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