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Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline

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Mark Stokes
Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 10, 2008 at 8:27:20 pm

Hi there everyone,

First things first i'm very new to Encore in comparrison to the wealth of knowledge of everyone else i've experienced wading through posts hoping to find an answer to my problem so i hope this post is not something that will be too basic to deserve someone's attention.

I am currently working on a project which requires the final piece to be burnt out on dual layer (approximate size 7.5 gb.)With my first attempt I tried to build with the layer break on automatic and when the break occured at least half of the chapterhad a jerky broken image. After doing some reading I learnt that an alternative way was to set the break yourself and in order to do so i would need to start the project completely from scratch as it is not possible to revert the break once video has been transcoded as automatic?


So, I attempted to build after starting the project completely from scratch (re exported all footage,animated background and imported into a brand new encore project) I still had exactly the same problem despite having asked the break to occur over black. To reiterate, this second attempt was put together completely from scratch with Avid quick time reference footage once again being exported from Avid and saved under new file names then reimported in a new Encore project.

I did this once again just incase; dual layer disk setting, manual layer break, side one. and once again had exactly the same problem.

So, today, having basically given up I once again, started the project again from scratch but this time attempted the build with the custom layer break set at a chapter point. The initial breaking issue I had with footage earlier on has dissappeared but has been replaced with two chapters of the dvd refusing to play whereby the DVD goes straight back to the main menu and this occours before the break is even set (chapter 7 when the break is set to chapter 8)

Now incredibly frustrated with deadline ridiculously iminent I am very very close to giving up and feeling very dejected by the whole process I am very close to missing out on a paycheque and harming a working relationship with a good client as a result.

I am very desperate and in need of some advice. Like I said at the beginning of this post, I am very new to Encore and would really appreciate it if someone could take the time to explain what my issue may be in terms that are simple to understand.

I have been wading through the forum for the past two hours looking for a way to solve this problem but it would appear that no one is having quite the specific problems I am with whole chapters refusing to play due to a breaking issue.

I understand that using some software called 'Gear' may solve breaking issues by allowing the user to reset the break to their desired place on the time line but with my lack of knowledge i'm not even sure if this is a breaking issue as i've set the break to my desired location several times now and still had the same problem. Maybe its my DVD player? It is about 4 years old. But this product is to go on sale so would be preferable if it worked on several players, despite thier age.

Please help I am incredibly desperate and near breaking point myself :) Sorry for the length of this post, I hope I have been specific enough for someone to come to my aid.

Thanks in advance

A desperate Mark Stokes


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Jon Geddes
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 15, 2008 at 5:19:16 pm

I always have issues burning dual layer discs when the timeline exceeds 2 hours. Before the layer break it seems to skip backwards to a spot in the middle of the previous chapters, yet the timecode doesn't change, nor do the chapters, so then all the chapters are off by 1 or 2. Then later in the disc it completely skips a chapter. It happened in CS2 and happens in CS3 (haven't tried it in CS4 yet). The only work around was to keep the timelines under 2 hours by splitting it up into 2. End action of first half jumps straight to first chapter of second half, transition is pretty seamless (just like a layer break).

This problem is reproducible every single time and is considered a bug with Encore. Ever since encore has had the ability to burn dual layer discs, the problem has existed. I'm curious if they finally addressed it in the latest CS4.

Jon Geddes
Motion Graphics Designer
http://www.precomposed.com


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Joe Bowden
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 15, 2008 at 6:04:32 pm

[Jon Geddes] "This problem is reproducible every single time and is considered a bug with Encore. Ever since encore has had the ability to burn dual layer discs, the problem has existed."

This is the first time I've heard that such a bug exists. Has this been confirmed by someone at Adobe?



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Jon Geddes
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 15, 2008 at 10:01:25 pm

Not confirmed by adobe that I know of (not many of them are), but by other users in the adobe user to user forums. I've seen the bug in every version (haven't tried cs4 though), on multiple systems. I haven't narrowed down the exact length of the timeline that causes the problem, but it is somewhere right around 2 hours (possibly exactly 2 hours). We've had several projects where the timeline went just over 2 hours (by just a few minutes) that were plagued with the problem. Some we had just under (by a few minutes) that did not experience the problem.

We tried:
- writing image and burning from a different app
- retranscoding the mpeg
- starting the encore project over completely from scratch

I think we even tried combining 2 clips in a single timeline. Nothing worked. The only workaround was to split the video into 2 different timelines, and have the first timeline's end action link to the beginning of the second timeline. Only downside is that the timecode on the dvd player will reset on the new timeline, and most players won't support jumping back to the previous timeline when the chapter back button is pressed. It's not ideal, but better than a dvd that can't be delivered to a client.

Jon Geddes
Motion Graphics Designer
http://www.precomposed.com


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Joe Bowden
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 15, 2008 at 11:42:27 pm

If it was reported to Adobe support and they could reproduce it, then they would certainly confirm it as a bug (and very likely fix it in an update or the next version). Have you tried contacting them about this?

When burning dual-layer with a single timeline, Encore should choose a chapter point to add the layer break to automatically, or offer you a choice. I've burned dual-layer DVDs many times since it was first introduced in Encore 1.5, and have never seen or heard about this one before. Also note that before Encore 1.5, there was support for mastering to dual-layer, so this has been a feature in Encore all along.

What brand of media do you use? I've never had trouble with Verbatim.




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Mark Stokes
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 16, 2008 at 12:59:29 am

Hi guys,

Thankyou for opening up a discussion on this matter.

I have sent off the finished burns to the guy in hope that it is just my dvd player being an old one that is slowly dying a death. Since then I have had a few different brain waves in which to try and solve my problem.

1) Could it possibly be the type of dual layer dvd i have been using? I burnt off a copy of an old version and had no problems which was -r and burnt at 1x speed. This worked fine but as i said it was an old version (same run time) but needed things changing

when i used -r's to burn off the finished product it was a different dvd brand which would only let me burn at 2.4 slowest speed

I have since done more research that suggested that +r dvds are the way to go when working with dual layer?

2) When i restarted the project from scratch to hopefully solve the breaking issue i set the layer break to the start of a chapter rather than my chosen specific destination on the time line. This is when the breaking issue occured in comparrison to the draft version which had no playback issues.

Could it be that by situating the break on a chapter point that i am having these issues?

3) I am contemplating using Gear to reposition the layer break then burn as an ifo? could this solve my problem?

I read that these issues occur when the timeline is over 2 hours. The thing is that my project has two time lines. One being an hour and five minutes and the other being forty five so it is not exceeding the 2 hour mark that you stated.

Could really do with some help here guys!!!

Thanks again

Mark



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Joe Bowden
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 16, 2008 at 1:13:33 am

Hi Mark,

DVD-R DL should be OK, but look to the brand. Get the highest quality available. I use Verbatim DVD+R DL, burned at the slowest speed (2.4X) and have never had a problem.

It's possible that your layer break has somehow been compromised. Have you tried creating a new project?

Gear could possibly solve your layer break issues...but I have never used it. Maybe Neil Wilkes can jump in here with some advice? If Neil's not on the Cow, try posting your problem on the Adobe U2U, where Neil is a regular contributor. He frequently uses Gear Pro.

Hope this is helpful,
Joe



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Jon Geddes
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 16, 2008 at 9:45:46 pm

It has nothing to do with the media used. We created an image, mounted the image, and played it back on the computer without ever burning. The problem existed even in the image, before it was burned (so no layer break was even present).

And yes, we use only verbatim 2.4x DL discs, even though thats not the problem.

Since your single timeline does not exceed 2 hours, it appears we could be having different problems. Yours could be the result of poor media, burning too fast, etc. When burning dual layer discs, it is always important to burn at the slowest speed possible (usually 2.4x). Also, some dvd players have issues with burned DL media.

Jon Geddes
Motion Graphics Designer
http://www.precomposed.com


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Joe Bowden
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Dec 17, 2008 at 4:31:13 pm

[Jon Geddes] "The problem existed even in the image, before it was burned (so no layer break was even present)."

The layer break is created when you build the project, even if you never burn a disc.



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Jon Geddes
Re: Layer breaking issue- Whole chapters being cut out. Very desperate with impending deadline
on Jan 4, 2009 at 7:40:56 pm

Yes but it never has to burn the layer break. I've had images that do the layer break no problem, however due to burning at 4x instead of 2.4, the layer break causes the dvd player to lock up.

Jon Geddes
Motion Graphics Designer
http://www.precomposed.com


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