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Chris Pettit
Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 1:47:32 am

Hello all.

I am attempting to endcode / author my first BLU RAY project using the following:

HDV CS3 Premiere project / encoded to MPEG2 Blu Ray 1920x1080 preset
Sony VAIO Duo Core w 2 GB RAM / built in BD burner
Encore CS3 for authoring
Media: Sony BD-RE rewritable disc

Bottom line: the disc will not play. Not in the computer using the provided software player, and not in the Blu Ray set top box. The disc is authoring from Encore without errors, but will not play anywhere.

So I tried authoring a disc image first, and then using Encore to burn the disc, no good. So I downloaded IMGBURN, and attemped to burng a disc using that, no good.

When I load the disc into the computer, I can see all the releveant folders and files, ie: BDMV etc., so I know that it's burning, but it wont run. Period

I have many years into authoring SD DVD, but I have 2 days into this, and have come to the conclusion that this is not a very stable format yet, at least in terms of mainstream solutions such as CS3.

Please tell me I'm wrong. Am I doing something stupid?

Thanks in advace

Chris


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heath firestone
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 4:17:20 am

I have authored a few Blu-Ray discs, some short format, and one with a runtime of 75 minutes. I was using prerelease versions of Encore CS3 for some of this, and wrote an article for Post which came out in last years July Issue. It should be a stable enough platform to author to. I think we just need to figure out where things are breaking. I had some problems with the prerelease version of the H.264 encoder on long format projects, but I think those got worked out before release. I have never had problems with the MPEG2 encoder. BTW, the problems I encountered only had to do with completing successful transcodes. If you made it past that, it should be smooth sailing. That being said, you mention that you finish your Blu-Ray burn, but it won't play. On the Blu-Ray disc player side, early versions sometimes didn't support BD-R and BD-RE media, but this should be corected with a firmware upgrade. Modern Blu-Ray players shouldn't have this problem. My first tests with PS3's over a year ago, wouldn't read until; we did a firmware upgrade. So, the first thing I would do on your end, is update firmware. I'm a little confused by the inability to play on the computer, though. I would try the newest version of Cyberlink's Power DVD Ultra, which is designed for playing Blu-Ray discs on the computer. If this won't play it, we have bigger problems. If you get their Suite 6 Ultra, you can try using their Power2Go application to burn your Encore image to the Blu-Ray disc. They are pretty committed to supporting Blu-Ray, and I've been impressed by their utilities. I think you can get demos of their stuff to test too.

Try this and let me know. I suspect your problem is either in the burn to the Blu-Ray disk, or compatibility with the Bd-R or BD-RE media.

Hope this helps. Give me feedback and I should be able to help you resolve this.

Heath


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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 1:38:31 pm

Thanks Heath. All good suggestions, but I'm afraid they had occured to me before I posted. I have attempted to run the disc on 2 separate Blu Ray capable computers, both Vaio, but one is a laptop, and got the same result. (Using the InterVideo WinDVD BD player for Sony). While I have had some playback problems with the desktop, the laptop plays back store bought discs fine.

After that, I decided to take the disc down to my local Best Buy, and ran it on a brand new Sony player, no luck there either. The software suggestion makes sense as well, but if it won't run on a brand new player, I'm inclined to think my problem lies elsewhere.

If CS3 is indeed reliable, and by most accounts it is, including yours, whats left? You mention BD-r and BD-RE compatability, but I have to assume they would be compatable with a new SONY player. The BD-RE I'm using is about 1.5 years old (came with the computer). Have they changed the media since then? Should I try new media?

Could it be the burner for some reason? I bought this particular set of computers for the Blu Ray capability, but they are also 1.5 years old. Do you have recommendations for external burners?

thanks again for all you time

chris



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Warren Eig
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 3:50:48 pm

[Chris Pettit] "After that, I decided to take the disc down to my local Best Buy, and ran it on a brand new Sony player, no luck "

I had the same problem creating on the Mac. Best Buy tends to have the latest players on display but with old firmware. My Sony BD-301s player had to have the 3.7 firmware to play BD-R(E) discs I was burning. The same player on display at Best Buy had firmware 2.8. Wouldn't read the discs.

Warren



Warren Eig

O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com

website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/knitwits

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/family_xmas.jsp



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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 4:15:37 pm

Hi Warren.

I suppose that could be it, although it seems weird that both computers and a new set top player couldn't play the disc.

Where do you go to get the updates?

Chris



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Warren Eig
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 4:46:40 pm

[Chris Pettit] "Where do you go to get the updates? "

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?region%5Fid=1&mdl=BDPS301

Warren



Warren Eig

O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com

website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/knitwits

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/family_xmas.jsp



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Heath Firestone
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 7:58:26 pm

If you are using an older burner, you might want to download a firmware update for it as well.



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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 27, 2008 at 10:21:26 pm

Thanks, I've been searching all afternoon, and finding lots of dead links to the firmware. Sony site is no help, nothing new there.

Anyone know of a good firmware location for such things? I am specifically looking for

Matsushita BD-MLT SW-5582





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walter biscardi
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 28, 2008 at 4:03:25 pm

Links to BluRay updates are in my blog:
http://blogs.creativecow.net/node/410

As for BluRay Authoring, we're discovering just how bad Encore really is with BluRay. If you do a very simple, play only type of menu you're ok. But start doing custom menus and Encore just falls apart.

We've been chasing a button routing issue with BluRay for two weeks now. We are creating 5 titles that will be sold on both DVD and BluRay. They feature a Main Menu with three buttons and a Chapter Selection Menu with 10 - 12 chapters depending on the title.

Build / Burn the Standard DVD, button routing works perfectly. Default for all the menus is Button 1 and that's what happens when you go there. Return to Last Menu also works fine.

Build / Burn the BluRay disc and button routing falls apart. On the Main Menu, Button 3 always comes up as default. On the Chapter Selection Menu, the last Chapter always comes up as Default.

We've changed the project so many times but no matter what we do, the last buttons always come up as default. We even just created a project that only has the two menus, no video, and just built the exact same menus twice, once as DVD, once as BluRay. It falls apart on BluRay each time.

So "Come for the BluRay, Stay for the Flash" definitely ain't happening when you get into custom menus. Right now I'm not sure we're even going to be able to deliver these titles, we may just have to send them off chalking up Encore and the entire CS3 bundle as a wasted investment at this time.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
View Walter Biscardi's profile on LinkedIn


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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 28, 2008 at 4:19:18 pm

Ouch. That is really scary. I continue to be concerned that CS3 could be my problem (or part of it), although I am in the process of taking the advice from this thread and updating my firmware.

The problem is that firmware updating has to start with the burner, and I cant find the update anywhere, even though it is mentioned all over the place. Everywhere I go the links to it are DEAD, and the SONY site is useless. I even tryed the link you just sent but I cant find it.

I'm sure that this will all eventually work itself out, but my original statement stands, at least so far. This standard sure seems like a mess to me.

I will continue to post as I learn things, thanks



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Zak Mussig
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 28, 2008 at 9:01:22 pm

This was our experience with DVDIt Pro HD. Horrible program. We went with it rather than Encore because it claimed it could output an image for replication whereas Encore could only build (and even then you have to burn with Toast). Fell apart on the build every time. It's a shame because with that many pixels you can do some really cool stuff with subpictures (e.g. anti-aliasing, render effects). You could do them in SD, but they're just so pretty and crisp at 1080. Anyway, we had to shelve the project because it isn't big enough to be worth buying scenarist or paying Sony for authoring.

Some day...

Zak

"You can't fix coverage in post."


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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 29, 2008 at 5:09:00 pm

OK, the latest:

Repeatedly contacted SONY support in a failed attempt to get firmware or driver update info on built in BD player/ burner. No help what so ever. They refuse to help me by email, insist that I log on via chat, when I do, the login refuses to acknoledge that my SONY model exists so I cant log-on. And these are the people who INVENTED this platform...

On another note: I downloaded the trial verison of Cyberlink BD Player, and it wont run either my BD-RE or even the store bought version! I get an error message that says my display is not BD compatable....My SONY display - the one that came with my SONY BluRay authoring MACHINE!!!!

I'll keep posting as I go through this process in case anyone else is enduring the same pain.



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Dan Asselin
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 2, 2008 at 2:39:32 am

Walter thank you for all the time you spend helping people here it is much appreciated. The post here runs in stark contrast to your blog which appears to be very Encore-Friendly. Is there something about your previous projects which allowed them to bypass the menu difficulties which you are now having.

On a personal note I have been approached to get into Blu Ray authoring for duplication for a small series of specialty projects.
Should I tell them that my Encore-Pioneer burner combination will only produce straight play (no menus) projects?

If not what was the limit on the number of buttons your previously successful projects had?

Thanks again for your time...........Dan



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John Rich
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on May 30, 2008 at 12:17:52 pm

For what it's worth I have a couple of thoughts.
1. I got PowerDVD to play my attempts at BluRay folders on the computer, but it didn't work (http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/2737.page) probably because the ability to read folders on a computer was removed.
2. However, my LiteOn Blu Ray burner had a Cyberlink disk which did have a version of PowerDVD that would play the folder.
3. When I used ImgBurn to burn a .iso file, it would play on Best Buy's Sony I believe RS300.
4. However in order to get the project to play on my PlayStation 3 several manipulations were required that I mentioned in the post right before this.
I was using the ideas of others on regular DVD's.
It would be nice to hear if you have any other ideas.
Thanks,
John Rich

JOHNR


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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 1, 2008 at 11:27:44 pm

OK, more info.

To my great suprise the most common Sony BluRay player, the BDP-S300 will NOT play BD-R or BD-RE discs. Its not even in the specs for that machine.

So for quite a while I have been trying to run this thing on players that were apparently never designed to even run the media. You would think SONY would go to a little more trouble to let people know this...

Once I realized that, I read up and discovered that the BDP-S500 DOES play those discs. So I went to a couple of stores untill I found one that was hooked up and NIRVANA, disc and menu ran just fine! Of course no one in town has one in stock. NO ONE.

So in my particular case, the authoring and burning was correct, the playerS were not. The really agravating part is that included the actual burners. They will burn the things but won't play them back.

There goes an entire week. You cant make this stuff up.



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John Rich
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 2, 2008 at 12:40:49 am

Chris,
According to this thread, the S300 may need a firmware update to play the BluRay disks you tried. http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/145/862925

I actually got an .iso Bluray image I burned to a regular DVD to play in Best Buy on one of those players, but I don't know if it had the update firmware.

John

JOHNR


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Warren Eig
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 2, 2008 at 7:39:49 am

[Chris Pettit] "To my great suprise the most common Sony BluRay player, the BDP-S300 will NOT play BD-R or BD-RE discs. Its not even in the specs for that machine. "

Mine plays BD-R BD-RE discs fine. Must have firmware 3.7, 3.8 or 3.9.

Warren

Warren Eig

O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com

website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/knitwits

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/family_xmas.jsp



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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 2, 2008 at 2:08:48 pm

My apologies, John /Warren.

I thought I had checked out all relevant posts here before starting this thread, but I missed this one. And it was mentioned previously to me that I should get firmware updates. I started by trying to get updates for the burner itself, and STILL have had no response from SONY tech support. So I kind of gave up on that track and was searching in different directions for a solution.

But I didn't realize that the update solution applies specifically to the 300, and since the specs for the machine said no, I took them at their word. Very good news that I can, it will save me $200.00 over the BDP-S500.

Heres the problem (for me anyway): I cant tell my clients to go buy a player, then search the internet, download a firmware update, burn it to CD and then execute a firmware update. Since at the moment the s500 seems to SHIP with the right compatibilities, I will have to reccomend it instead. Option 2: buy a whole bunch of players, do the updates myself, (testing compatablility with my content) and then ship everything to the client ready to go.

That said, I can't thank everyone enough for all their time and expertise. As was suggested at the begining, I does appear to be a player/media challenge, easily solved.

You have all helped me work through this problem, I am deeply appreciative!

Chris



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Warren Eig
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 2, 2008 at 3:34:51 pm

Chris,

Mine had firmware 3.7 out of the box and played all BD-RE and BD-R I threw at it.

Warren

Warren Eig

O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com

website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/knitwits

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/family_xmas.jsp



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Chris Pettit
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 4, 2008 at 9:39:30 pm

Warren:

Sure enough. Just bought the S300, it was ready to go out of the box. Played the BD-RE with no problems

Thanks again for everyones help!

Chris



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John Rich
Re: Blu Ray Authoring HELL
on Jun 4, 2008 at 11:52:32 pm

I just got a BD-RE to play perfectly on my PlayStation 3.

Interestingly, I had the same problems with button routing that Warren described (always landing on the same menu button and no moving forward on return).

In addition, I couldn't get any kind of button routing work when I used chapter markers, so I had to use separate timelines.

John Rich

JOHNR


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