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Cheesefather
Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 4, 2007 at 10:15:55 am

Hi, I built a project using Encore 2.0 which is pretty complicated - about 90 menus, 16 timelines, 25-odd chapter playlists and a couple of standard playlists. It fills up a dual-layer DVD. The only errors I get when checking the project are the ones informing me that a timeline end action won't happen because the last chapter has an end action set (on all my timelines, as I need to play individual chapters and then return to menus). Now, having burned a DVD, it seems to work fine in a computer using a software player, but in my DVD player the links are all messed up. Some of the links that should be playing video will go to other menus or wrong timelines, and when the menu root button button is pressed during a timeline it will link to another chapter (always the same one from a different timeline) instead of going back to the previous menu as it should. Has anyone come across this behaviour before and how can I fix it? Getting a bit desperate - thanks!! Mish.



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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 4, 2007 at 4:10:25 pm

First: Overrides.

Do you have any set? For any project element? If so, why do you think you need them? Your disc seems complicated enough that they might be needed to accomplish your planned navigation, but the probability is very low. Even if your disc navigation is set up correctly, using overrides when not necessary will mess things up horribly.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 4, 2007 at 4:18:07 pm

Thanks for the response. No overrides set anywhere in the project, I'm afraid. Could it be a problem with calculating the returns to last menu? I'll try explicitly setting all of my menu/end action links instead of using rtlm. Any other advice gratefully received, M.



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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 4, 2007 at 6:48:45 pm

"timeline end action won't happen because the last chapter has an end action set (on all my timelines, as I need to play individual chapters and then return to menus)"

Step-by-step here, sorry. :)

Try deleting each of the end actions from the last chapters, and instead making the timeline end action link to where you need it to go. I can't think of a scenario where you would need the last chapter of a timeline to have its own end action, whether it was different from the timeline's end action or not.

Note: Please make sure you do any further testing with an RW disc or two. No coasters. ;)

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 7, 2007 at 11:01:47 pm

Hi again - thanks for the response. I removed every "return to last menu" end action in the project and explicitly linked everything to where it needed to be, I also removed all individual chapter end actions so there were no errors when I checked the project. I also renamed all my buttons so that there were no similar names anywhere in the project... and when I re-built it was a lot better, but still has problems when it plays in a DVD player. Many of the buttons that should link to their own timelines go instead to somewhere in the timeline I added to the project last (which is one of the 2 longest timelines) when played in a DVD player. Should I import the largest timelines first? Does it make a difference?

Finally, I have to write the thing to a DL DVD so I can't use rewritables :-(




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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 8, 2007 at 2:13:39 am

[Cheesefather] "Many of the buttons that should link to their own timelines go instead to somewhere in the timeline I added to the project last (which is one of the 2 longest timelines) when played in a DVD player"

This is either caused by overrides (did you miss any? The suckers can be hard to find) or by "pilot error" when the links were set. Double- and triple-check your links. If you're not already, try using the Flowchart to examine the structure of your project's navigation.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 8, 2007 at 9:48:08 am

I didn't set any overrides anywhere in the project and I have double-checked those links - I know they aren't wrong because if I put a built DVD in my computer and play it using windows media player (for example) then the links go to the correct timeline (or chapter playlist for the one I just checked), but in my DVD player they don't. I'm going to try starting the project again from scratch and importing the largest timelines first. Is there a specific order of doing things that works best? For the moment, if I want to build a section of the DVD with a menu with a play all function (that links to a chapter playlist) and a play chapter function (that links to somewhere in the same chapter playlist) my order is as follows:

1. import menus (created in photoshop)
2. uncheck sync button text/name
3. set custom navigation for each button
4. set next/previous/home links
4. import timeline and set individual end action
5. create/name chapter points
6. create chapter playlist(s) with individual end action
7. link buttons to chapters/playlists
8. add main timeline to easteregg playlist (plays entire disc)

I really don't understand what's going wrong :-(



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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 8, 2007 at 12:46:03 pm

Your workflow seems to be OK.

The order that you create your timelines is the order that they will be written to disc. Typically on a DL disc that can help solve layer-break issues, but you don't seem to be having problems with the layer break. Unless you have omitted important details about your disc navigation, I don't think changing the import or creation order of your timelines will make any difference. But it can't hurt to try if you are rebuilding your project anyway.

We talked about chapter end actions - I recommended removing the end action from the last chapter of each timeline. You said you removed them all and the disc navigation still worked on a software player. That's a potential problem area, since you apparently thought you needed end actions on individual chapters initially.

There is a bug in Encore 2.0 that can cause problems if you have more than 19 chapters from a single timeline in a chapter playlist. I don't know why 19 is the "magic number", but if you have one or more chapter playlists with around 19 chapters in it, I recommend breaking it up into 2 or more chapter playlists.

What brand of blank media are you using? Verbatim is the generally accepted standard for dual-layer +R discs. Other brands (Ritek?) are of lesser quality and may cause problems once burned. DVD burners in computers are often able to read discs better than stand-alone players.

Also burn at no more than half the rated speed of the blank media or burner.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 8, 2007 at 1:35:14 pm

Hi - thanks for the post. I am mid-way through a project re-build, but have saved it to return to later after reading your post.

I had indeed removed the chapter end actions from the timelines - though this was due to a request from the guy the disc is for - I pushed him in the right direction - previously the idea had been to play individual chapters (as well as a play all) and then return to the menu, and as there were numerous chapter playlists referencing each timeline, each chapter needed an end action. All gone now though.

A few of my chapter playlists do have over 19 chapters in them so I am going back to the original saved project and splitting them up... with fingers very crossed.

Re: media - I was using Verbatims and had tried writing at 2.4x, 4x and 8x with no effect. The last few I wrote were Philips as they're a bit cheaper and I seem to have no alternative to creating coasters.

I'll let you know how it goes - thanks for the help!





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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 8, 2007 at 2:47:20 pm

No joy after removing the 2 chapter playlists with over 19 chapters in them. I'll continue the new project...




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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 9, 2007 at 9:25:05 am

I finished recreating the project, I started with the largest timeline and then the second largest etc. After finishing each of the 16 main sections I built a disc image of the unfinished project (I seem to remember being convinced that this helped a project in encore 1.5 I once had problems with). End result, the whole thing works perfectly EXCEPT for one section - the second largest, where links go to the wrong place again. This leads me to think that the problem is related to the order I am adding things and how the layer break is being handled. The 2 largest sections are 1.08 and 1.05 GB each, so would both fit on a single side... the whole thing is made up of 16 timelines totalling 7.7 Gb of (16) MPEGs. How should I work out where it needs to put them (as it doesn't seem to be doing a good job itself) and thus the order in which I should add them?! Thanks!



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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 11, 2007 at 8:38:46 am

Okay I worked out an order to lay them out on disc that meant there was the same amount of data on each side (to within a couple of meg) and added timelines in that order when recreating the project (again). I built the disc - same type of errors, with links going to the wrong places. I tried the project again, building an image between adding sections. Same thing. I created a disc of just those timelines with no chapters, playlists or chapter playlists and only a couple of menus and it worked, but nothing complex was going on - this just confirmed that the software could write the video properly. I made an image of the disc and wrote it on a different computer, I built a folder and wrote it on a different computer - same errors, so it is definitely the software at fault.

Now, in the last disc there are 3 sections that do not work and they are the first 3 sections I added to the disc. The answer must be in the order that I import timelines (see table below), but this project is already well overdue and I'll have to buy a copy of scenarist or something if this isn't sorted... but I'm so close! Please please please advise on the order to add the timelines - I'm sure that's where the problem is. THANKS!!!

SECTION MB
1 1110
2 816
3 492
4 386
5 338
6 338
7 310
############LAYER BREAK (in theory)
############TOTAL SIDE 1: 3790 MB
8 1080
9 506
10 450
11 396
12 314
13 304
14 276
15 247
16 216
############TOTAL SIDE 2: 3789 MB





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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 11, 2007 at 12:51:23 pm

[Cheesefather] "same type of errors, with links going to the wrong places."

How many hardware DVD players have you tested? You should test in several because that will eliminate player/firmware issues.

Are there *any* glitches in the burned disc when played on a software DVD player? How many of those have you tested?

Do you have any navigation features set in your project that would respond differently to a software player as compared to a hardware player? Auto-activation of menu buttons, for example?

When the hardware player jumps to the wrong place, what operation triggers the bad jump? Is it selecting a button from a menu? Is it using the FF/REW buttons on the DVD remote control to get to the end of a chapter playlist or timeline? Is it using the Next/Previous buttons on the remote? Etc.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 11, 2007 at 1:07:39 pm

Hi Jeff - thanks for the reply.

How many hardware DVD players have you tested?

So far just the one, but as the errors change based on the order I output the project, I ruled out the hardware. I will try and find another one...

Are there *any* glitches in the burned disc when played on a software DVD player?

I haven't found any so far - it all seems to work fine.

Do you have any navigation features set in your project that would respond differently to a software player as compared to a hardware player?

No - there's not really anything non-standard going on with the links...

When the hardware player jumps to the wrong place, what operation triggers the bad jump?

It's a button on a menu - for example if I go into a non-working section and click on "play all" it might take me to the wrong timeline, or sometimes into the middle of the wrong timeline - but where it takes me is always the same, and I think every button that should go to one timeline will take me somewhere on the same wrong timeline, i.e. all the chapter links in section 1 will instead go to chapters in section 10 for example.

Thanks.



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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 11, 2007 at 1:48:55 pm

Written single-layer discs only work on about 90% of existing DVD players. Written DL discs are worse - I've read statistics quoted at less than 75%. That means that 1 out of 4 current DVD players won't read a written DL disc, or won't read it correctly.

Pressed discs, those pressed from a glass master at replication facility, have nearly 100% compatibility. But you pay a high price for that.

I'm betting on the player being the problem.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Cheesefather
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 11, 2007 at 7:50:52 pm

Jeff, you are a genius! I tested the DVD in a couple of other players today and it worked pretty much as it was supposed to (a couple of issues with going to the wrong menus when the menu button was pressed, but I think if I add back in all the "return to last menu"-s it'll be okay). I had no idea compatibility was that low with DLs, but I guess you live and learn. Feel slightly foolish now that I've wasted a week...

I'm assuming that when I send the disc to be mastered everything will be okay...

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for all your help,

M.



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Jeff Bellune
Re: Built DVD only works in PC
on Jan 11, 2007 at 8:03:54 pm

You're welcome. Sorry I didn't think to ask about the player sooner!

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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