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Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?

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moxiecat
Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 9, 2006 at 4:46:55 pm

I recently switched from using Ulead DVD Workshop to trying out Encore. In Workshop, I would always have the program build the DVD files in a folder and then use Nero to burn the DVD. I found this was the fastest method and also avoided frequent Workshop errors; it allowed me to check the DVD folder in PowerDVD before burning; and it was a snap to make additional DVDs because Nero opens quickly and works reliably.

However, while learning Encore, I read in a few places that using the similar process in Encore, "Build DVD folder," results in files that can be viewed on a program like PowerDVD, but which shouldn't be burned to DVD because the DVD may not work right.

I don't understand this. Either Encore creates a standard DVD video_ts folder with VOBs, IFOs, and BUPs, or it doesn't. Can someone explain to me the technical reason for why the DVD folder built by Encore shouldn't be burned to a single-layer DVD using a standard burning program like Nero?

Thanks.





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Joe Bowden
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 9, 2006 at 6:09:28 pm

You heard wrong- it's Nero that can't be trusted to burn a VIDEO_TS folder correctly.

Burn your DVD directly in Encore, and you should be fine. If you have any burning problems from Encore, export a DVD image from Encore, then burn from the image from Nero or ImgBurn.


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moxiecat
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 9, 2006 at 6:30:51 pm

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the response, but some of what you wrote doesn't make sense.

I read about the Encore DVD folder burning-outside problem in the Bellune Focal guide. It says: "Building the project as a DVD folder allows for quick checking of the project on the computer by a software DVD player....The DVD folder is not intended to be burned directly to disc because the finished DVD may not work right." I took this to mean that you can only burn Encore-created DVD folders using the DVD burner built into Encore, which seems limiting.

In the manual I have for Ulead DVD Workshop, it states regarding its "build DVD folder option": "DVD folders can be used to test the functions of the project using a software DVD player. In addition, the DVD folders can be used to burn a project to disc." This is essentially the same section regarding DVD folders as in the Bellune guide.

So why can Workshop do this but Encore can't? What is the difference between the DVD folders the two programs create? This is the same exact feature/function between the two programs, but one lets you burn outside of the program and one doesn't. Why?

Whether one uses Nero or another program to do burning is irrelevant. However, as far as Nero being unable to burn a DVD folder correctly, with all due respect, I find that ridiculous. I have been using Nero to burn the contents of DVD/video_ts folders for years and on a regular basis. I have never had a problem with my DVDs not working on set-top DVD players after they've been burned with Nero.



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Joe Bowden
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 9, 2006 at 7:04:42 pm

moxiecat, I don't know the passage you're quoting from, but I think you're misinterpreting what Jeff wrote. What I believe he meant if your paraphrasing is correct is you can't just burn a straight data DVD from a VIDEO_TS folder and have it play in a DVD player (it won't), but that is true of any VIDEO_TS folder created in any DVD authoring app, not just those created by Encore. But Encore-built VIDEO_TS folders are as compatible as they come for DVD authoring- it's whatever application you are burning them from that.

It's fairly well known that Nero can have trouble with BUP and IFO files in the VIDEO_TS folder, which can cause playback trouble in some DVD players. Best to avoid it unless you are willing to take your chances. Better is to burn from an image file- then Nero does no parsing of the VIDEO_TS folder, and just burns a copy of what's in the image.

But the main point I'm trying to make, is why build a DVD folder at all? You're adding an unnecessary step by doing this. You can burn your project directly from Encore and all should be well. If you like making more work for yourself, you can even build a DVD folder, and then use this as your source in Encore to burn a DVD, or take your chances on a non-compliant application a burn from there.

It's your time and money to burn, not mine.


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moxiecat
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 9, 2006 at 7:32:13 pm

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your help, and please know that I meant no offense. All I know is based on my own experience with Workshop and Nero. I am trying to move into Encore because I don't think Workshop will ever be updated; plus I love Encore's integration with Photoshop, which I use extensively.

Part of why I would burn from a DVD folder is related to my post from yesterday, in which you helped me with DVDPatcher and the MPEG I have that's 704x480 that I don't want to transcode. From what I understand, after Encore creates the files in a DVD folder, you must use DVDPatcher to "repatch" the movie VOB files before burning, or the aspect ratio is off. I can't see how this process is possible unless you burn directly from the repatched DVD folder. My instinct would be to take those repatched files and burn them in Nero. I found these directions on a thread on the Adobe Encore forum regarding how to use DVDPatcher with Encore.

As far as the Bellune book, I quoted from page 206, under the subheading "Build a DVD Folder." I quoted the book directly. The Adobe manual that came with Encore says the same thing about not using an outside program.

My process has usually been to make a DVD folder in the authoring program, then try it out in a software DVD program to make sure everything works correctly. Then I usually just open Nero and burn the files to disc.

"You can't just burn a straight data DVD from a VIDEO_TS folder and have it play in a DVD player (it won't), but that is true of any VIDEO_TS folder created in any DVD authoring app." Again, respectively, yes it WILL. You CAN burn the files in a video_ts folder using the "burn video disc" option in Nero. You simply copy the video_ts files into the video_ts folder provided by Nero. I do this all the time, have given many DVDs created in this problem to friends and relatives using all different kinds of DVD players, and I have never had complaints that they don't work. Am I crazy? Don't other people do this too? Joe, I'm not saying you're incorrect. But I don't understand why this process has worked for me if you can't burn a usable DVD disc in this manner.

Again, I mean no offense by disagreeing with you. Maybe we just have our wires crossed on some point. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks for your help.




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Jeff Bellune
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 10, 2006 at 3:40:47 pm

Sorry for the delay in responding to this - I'm on vacation and haven't checked the forums for a while.

Joe is correct; I meant that if you try to burn the folder directly to disc (like adding data to a data DVD), the disc won't work correctly.

Typically, one would check the DVD by watching the finished DVD folder in a software DVD player. If you have an app that can create a proper DVD from a set of DVD folders then by all means, use the folders that Encore creates.

But in the spirit of the Easy Guide, burning a set of DVD folders is low on the priority list. IMHO, it is easier to:
a) Burn the disc (or discs) directly from Encore; or
b) Create a disc image and burn from Encore, ImgBurn, GEAR, Nero or any other program that supports DVD image burning.

There are folks reading the Easy Guide that have never burned any DVDs, let alone tried to burn a set of DVD folders. The caution was intended for them. My assumption is that experienced authors would know exactly what to do with a set of DVD folders, and if that is their chosen workflow, Encore's DVD folders will work just fine.

I hope this clears things up a bit,
-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0


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Joe Bowden
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 10, 2006 at 5:00:32 pm

Now it makes sense why you are trying to do this as you are. Sorry for the impatient tone in my last post- part of it was due to not understanding why you were going about it the long way. I only have a limited amount of time in the day to reply to user questions, so I like to keep it brief and move things along. Also, correcting misassumptions about the capabilities of Encore can take up lots of time I don't have, so thanks to Jeff for clarifying what he meant in that particular passage.

I think there is something that I have so far failed to communicate, so I will say it now: Encore produces completely compatible DVD folders (VIDEO_TS). Whatever the application you use to burn this folder to DVD-Video disc from, if used correctly and it is DVD-Video spec-compliant, will produce a compatible, playable DVD. In other words, if you take an Encore-produced VIDEO_TS folder and burn it using the DVD-Video wizard in Nero, it will be as compatible as any other VIDEO_TS folder from any other DVD authoring app fed into Nero. Which may not be saying a lot due to some issues in Nero! But then again, you may not see this. The point is, using an image file eliminates the need for Nero to parse the VIDEO_TS folder, and thus doesn't add any of their file ordering idiosyncracies into the picture.

Now- it just came back to me: ReStream is the app I was referring to in the previous topic you asked about. It will allow you to change the dimensions reported in the MPEG header file. If you have built a DVD folder in Encore, then you have already re-transcoded the video, and DVDPatcher isn't really going to help you as you were trying to avoid that in the first place.


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drumrob
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 10, 2006 at 7:58:18 pm

I remember in the early days of DVD, it was recommended to always have an AUDIO_TS folder as well as a VIDEO_TS folder - even though it would be empty (assuming you're not doing a DVD-Audio disc). Apparently some players would not recognize the disc properly if the AUDIO_TS folder was not there, so including one increased compatibility. I notice that Encore does not create an AUDIO_TS folder. Are there compatibilty issues with that? And if so, would it be possible to add an AUDIO_TS folder (that's empty) as if you were adding ROM content, then burn an image? What do you think?

THANKS!

Rob


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Joe Bowden
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 10, 2006 at 9:15:05 pm

An AUDIO_TS folder is not necessary for DVD-Video playback, although some are convinced that very old players will have problems without one. You'll notice if you check the file structure of the latest Hollywood DVD titles, they have only the required VIDEO_TS folder, and not the AUDIO_TS.

However, if it gives you peace of mind, you can add an AUDIO_TS folder within a ROM folder and add that ROM folder to the ROM section of the Encore project, and then there will be an AUDIO_TS folder at the root level of the disc.


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moxiecat
Re: Can I burn an Encore "build DVD folder" in Nero?
on Dec 11, 2006 at 5:27:00 pm

Thanks--that clears a lot up!

Jeff--just as a sidenote, your book has been an invaluable guide as I've been trying to learn Encore 2.

I'm more than happy to try burning directly in Encore. Just got out of the habit with burning in the authoring program because Workshop would crash frequently during internal burning. So I wasted a lot of discs.

I'll have to look at ReStream. Actually, I did try DVDPatcher. Once you patch the header for the MPEG, Encore loads the file, is faked out by the header, and says the file doesn't need to be transcoded. That part did work for me. I suppose then Encore builds the DVD folder from there without transcoding the file.

However, then there is some confusion. I've read both that the resulting VOBs can be burned directly to disc OR that the VOBs need to be repatched to the correct 704x480 size before burning. I can't seem to find a consensus on which is correct, and I really don't know enough technical stuff to understand why one or the other would work.

Also, there is confusion about when doing the patch (either before or after), whether you should patch just the header for the MPEG or the entire file. (It doesn't help that the "read me" for DVD Patcher is in German and there are no decent instructions out there regarding how to use it! Plus many people are trying to use it for SVCD-to-MPEG stuff rather than aspect ratio.)

I'll take a look at ReStream and see if that's easier or clearer about instructions. Thanks!



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