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Matt Dubber
GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 16, 2006 at 3:35:57 pm

Anyone here use Encore 2.0 for creating DVD-9 for replication? I am creating a DVD-9 project and can't seem to be able to manually set the layer break point. First of all, does anyone else have this same problem? Second, I have heard that Gear Pro Mastering software may be a bit more flexible when creating DLT for DVD-9 replication. Has anyone used that software before....any comments on it?

-Matt


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Neil Wilkes
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 16, 2006 at 7:54:19 pm

Hello again Matt.

I have just the other day finished off a project exclusively using EncoreDVD 2 as a Dual Layer DVD9 project.
Like you, I had no option but to use the Automatic setting, but during test writes to DVD+R DL media, the break was seamless. Additionally, I knew I had around 600Mb left on the disc so would not be affected by that nasty "Gotcha" for the unwary with +R DL format - the fact it splits the data into approximately equal parts (DVD-R DL does not work this way. The rule for -R DL is that Layer 0 has to be bigger than Layer 1, and that is it. There is nothing stopping you having 3/4 on layer 0, and the remainder on Layer 1. You cannot do this with +R DL discs).

Re GPME - see my answer to your other post.



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tommmm
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 16, 2006 at 8:50:06 pm

I don't understand what you mean by the 'gotcha' problem when a DL project is filled to the max. Can you explain this a little further?


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Matt Dubber
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 16, 2006 at 9:12:47 pm

If I read this correctly, you recommend using DVD-R DL for DVD-Video projects instead of DVD+R DL because with -R DL you can set an 'uneven' layer break point. Is the +R DL equal layer rule consistent for ALL types of data on a +R DL?? Ultimately I am wondering if the Automatic Layer Break point in Encore is ignored when writing to +R DL through Encore.


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Neil Wilkes
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 17, 2006 at 8:16:01 am

Matt, before I dive in to your question I need to answer the one above from tommmm.
The 2 different DL formats both have different maximum layer 0 sizes. This is the "gotcha" that can really be a pain, as the +R DL format will allow a maximum of 2,086,192 sectors in Layer 0, but the -R DL format will only allow a maximum of 2,085,856 sectors in Layer 0.
Whilst this may seem insignificant, the problem can easily arise in a "close-to-capacity" project that although you can legally write the +R DL disc, it may fall out of the maximum range once transferred to DLT for replication, and cause problems.
I must stress the odds of this actually occurring are admittedly dsomewhat remote - but it is something to be aware of, especially in light of the way that +R DL will always try to split the data across the 2 layers more or less evenly.
But, and this is a big but, it will only be a problem if space is really tight and the disc is close to full.
It's just one of the reasons all Bit Budgeting calculators add in a 4 or 5% overhead allowance.

Matt.
I would never recommend using +R DL discs for production. They are good for checking the project as a whole though, and for client approval discs as there are more players that accept the +R DL discs over the -R DL discs at this point in time. I suspect this will level out though, as -R DL discs get more & more common.
Another good reason they make great check discs is because you can write one straight from Encore, where if you want to use a -R DL disc you have to take a trip through another application. Encore certainly makes a fine job of writing to +R DL discs, and cannot possibly ignore it's automatic setting - otherwise it would not write a disc at all. This might happen if it cannot find a place to put one though - I am unsure, and will try to find out.
I would certainly never, under any circumstances at all, use a +R DL for a master. Come to think of it - I would not use a -R DL for a master either unless there really was no alternative at all.
The main reason I prefer the -R DL discs (-R in general)is simply because these are the writable formats backed & approved by the DVD Forum - the format's governing committee. And, of course, the Layer Break is much more like it is in a pressed disc.

The whole manual setting of Layer Breaks - and once I saw the method to do this using IFOEdit - filled me with absolute terror at first, not to mention a swift case of paranoia (I copied the folder to a backup in case I set an incorrect break & could not work out how to alter it once set) but after the first attempt (complete disaster) and a partially successful second attempt (got 3/4 of the way through, forgot to add the image shift & could not set break point. Panic!) I finally got there on the third try, and now - as long as I check what I do each time - I find it is actually quite a simple thing to do now I have got used to it.
Matt, if you have trouble, please feel free to contact me off-list & I will help you through it.



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Neil Wilkes
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 17, 2006 at 10:47:22 am

Matt.
You have another option here as well, that will not cost any money.
As long as you do not need to create DLT tapes this will work just fine for writtten discs.
I have not yet tested this, but am assured it works, and works well.
All you need is a copy of PGCEdit and IMGBurn - both freeware - and you even get a nice little GUI to help set the break.
Follow the detailed instructions below.

http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/dl_burn_guide2/dl_burning_with_pgced...



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Matt Dubber
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 17, 2006 at 3:52:09 pm

Thanks, but I will need to go to DLT for this project because I don't trust DVD+-R DL as a master and I'm not sure where the client will take it for replication.

I read through the instructions yesterday on how to set the layer break in Gear....I too was a bit overwhelmed. I'll go through it again today and see if it makes more sense, I'm sure it will once I actually try it. I burned a DVD+R DL last night directly from Encore and played it on my Sony player at home (it has an on screen graphic that shows the location of the laser while playing so you can easily see where the layer break actually happens....awesome feature). The break happened right between two timelines just perfectly...so either Encore did it right or the burn process to +R DL did it right. Either way it will be great for check discs as long as the client can play them.

I think every one of my upcoming DVD9 projects will have a layer break between timelines....how confident are you with Encore writing to DLT with accurate between timeline layer break? I do like Gears ability to verify a DLT and write back to HDD, but I just wonder if for my projects I will need it.


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Neil Wilkes
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 17, 2006 at 4:50:50 pm

Matt.
Encore really does get the Layer Break absolutely spot on in probably 99 out of every 100 cases. I just wish there was a way to
A - Verify the DLT after writing, and
B - A way to know where that Layer Break was set. I still think that a visual clue - either as a bar area in the timeline the LB will be located in (As happens in DVD-Lab Pro) or else in the flowchart somehow. I would be so much more comfortable knowing where the beast is.
Encore generally gets it right though.

As long as your clients can read a +R DL disc for Signoff purposes, you will be okay. The only one to worry about is when that project is close to full as it leaves a lot less leeway for the LB.

If you don't think you need GEAR, then you don't need it. You would know - and DLT is still the best way to get data to the replication plant IMHO. The 2 DVDR trick of writing one layer of the DDP image per disc does work, but will the plant accept this?



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Neil Wilkes
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 18, 2006 at 3:27:18 pm

Matt.

Word of Warning - you cannot trust the LB dialogue in EncoreDVD to be correct.
I have just had this happen to me - admittedly for the first time ever, but once is enough.
The LB range should have encompassed cell 31 (Chapter 10).
I got the test discs back, and only on playing the thing through an old player did I find a glitch.
Rechecking - IE writing a folder to HDD and loading this into IFOEdit - showed me that the LB is
A - Being set when a folder is written (This is NOT supposed to happen)
B - in the wrong place.

I had to reset in IFOEdit/GEAR Pro Mastering Edition (for the DLT).



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Matt Dubber
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 18, 2006 at 3:52:15 pm

Good to know, thanks for the heads up. I gather your confidence is much higher when using Gear for mastering rather than EncoreDVD. Quite possibly a $400 Gear purchase would be worthwhile insurance when going to DLT for replication.


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Neil Wilkes
Re: GEAR Pro Mastering software
on Aug 18, 2006 at 4:12:08 pm

Absolutely.

I used the Automatic option from Encore - only 7.4Gb on the project, and I already knew there was a legal LB spot at a chapter point.
For some reason, Encore has ignored this completely and placed the LB in the middle of a song!
Newer players do not even pause for breath at the break, but older ones do.

If LB setting is a worry for you, please mail me offlist & I will help you through the procedure.



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