FORUMS: list search recent posts

EX-1 Replacement

COW Forums : Sony XDCAM - EX & Related

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Keith Henderson
EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 11, 2018 at 2:13:02 am

Hello All,

My trusty Sony EX-1 that has served me so well since 2009 is in need of replacement. It has developed some issues, and I am seeing the need to upgrade, especially with 4K and higher resolutions now upon us.

I produce a wide variety of content for distribution on the internet, and it is quite possible that the EX-1 was perhaps "too much" camera for what I have been doing, but an old friend advised me way back when, "Treat cameras like tires for your car and computers: Buy the most you can afford at the time." And that seemed like sound advice.

So my question to you all is, what are your recommendations for a new Sony model replacement for my EX-1? Needless to say, I haven't researched video cameras much in the last few years, so I'm asking for your help and opinions. I would greatly appreciate advice on two levels/pricepoints:

The first would be for the $4,500-$6,000+ range, as I paid $6,000 for my EX-1

The second would be in the $2,000-ish price range, let's be realistic and say $1,500-$3,000, I'd like XLR connections, for instance.

Yes, 4K is mandatory, and I'm hoping that Sony is now using SD cards as opposed to the outrageously expensive SxS that had to be used with the EX-1.

This is all off the top of my head, I've been wanting to post this for a while now and am ready to make the jump to replacing my Sony EX-1.

Thank you all!


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 11, 2018 at 8:37:29 pm

Sony PXW-Z90 if small size is OK. It's 10 Bit 4:2:2 in HD. Shots 120fps slo mo continuous and 240fps "bursts" at useful. quality and up to 960fps and a bit reduced quality. Shoots 4k (UHD) 8 bit 4:2:0. It has incredibly useful autofocus (lots of programmability) for run and gun. 1" chip although lens is mostly f4 but can be f2.8 when full wide. XLR in and SDI out (in addition to HDM). Very good customizable profile options include S-Log2, S-Log3, HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma HDR). 1" type sensor for reasonable depth of field control. $2798
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1362802-REG/sony_pxw_z90v_pxw_z90_4k...

Otherwise if you want some thing that straddles run and gun an documentary camera with interchangeable lenses the Sony PXW-FS5. Super 35 sensor type. Built in variable ND. Otherwise fairly similar features to the above. $5248 with 18-105mm f4 lens.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185425-REG/sony_pxw_fs5k_pxw_fs5_xd...



Return to posts index

Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 12, 2018 at 4:35:55 pm

Craig,

Wow, thank you for all that! I'll give them a look today. I don't need changeable lenses, so if there is another larger form camera you might have in the higher price range I'd be grateful for that. I am, however, also quite grateful for these recommendations as well. Thank you!

Sincerely,

Keith


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 12, 2018 at 6:56:05 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Mar 12, 2018 at 8:22:05 pm

[Keith Henderson] "o if there is another larger form camera you might have in the higher price range I'd be grateful for that"

It seems the Z90 has features that aren't yet in the larger cameras such as the Z150. I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be seeing some updates along the product line for NAB.



Return to posts index

Michael Slowe
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 14, 2018 at 5:23:41 pm

Craig's advice seems pretty comprehensive (old time Cow contributor, Hi Craig!), but I thought that the PXW-Z150, had a higher spec than the Z90, maybe not. I replaced my EX 1 with the Z150 last year and although it shoots 4K, higher bit rates etc etc I don't see any other improvement. In fact in one particular it is worse, namely the inability to keep the aperture setting at wide (f2.8) all the way through a zoom. As has been mentioned, these new small Sony cameras, although notionally with bigger sensors, do not make it easy to narrow the DoF. The aperture 'ramps' as the focal length is increased so that, at full tele, you only have f4. If only they had fitted a better lens the camera would be perfect (the weight balance would presumably be disturbed with a bigger lens).

The EX 1 was brilliant, as all users will know, but things move on I'm afraid. Craig, how does the Z90 compare with my Z150? I don't want or need to shoot raw, is that the major difference?

Michael Slowe


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 14, 2018 at 6:07:50 pm

[Michael Slowe] " but I thought that the PXW-Z150, had a higher spec than the Z90, maybe not."

Nope. Z90 has new autofocus, S-Log, Hybrid Log Gamma (HDR) and slow motion 120fps continuous, 240 burst all the way to 960 (but lower resolution). The autofocus is major. It's the first time I've ever decided to use autofocus when doing run & gun shooting. The newer sensor in the Z90 is generally better as well.

[Michael Slowe] "nability to keep the aperture setting at wide (f2.8) all the way through a zoom."
This is normal with larger sensors. EX1 was 1/2" the 150 and 90 are 1" which would require much more expensive lens mechanisms to maintain aperture throughout.



Return to posts index


Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 14, 2018 at 6:51:04 pm

Michael,

I did some cross-checking on both models on the trusty B&H site and it looks as though the Z150 has a few improvements over the Z90, and I'm looking seriously into the Z150 because of it.

So far, the advice from you both has been very helpful and I appreciate your input!

Sincerely,

KH


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 14, 2018 at 11:43:40 pm

[Keith Henderson] "it looks as though the Z150 has a few improvements over the Z90, "

Absolutely not. Other than ergonomics it's older and is missing a lot of features. If anything, Sony may update because it's behind the Z90.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 14, 2018 at 11:51:06 pm

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2018/02/the-sony-pxw-z90-a-compact-4k-camcorder-w...

See Alister's comments after the review.

alisterchapman
MARCH 5, 2018 AT 12:37 PM
The only benefit the Z150 has is itโ€™s bigger and has separate rings for zoom and focus on the lens. So less fiddly to use on a tripod and may be more acceptable on a professional shoot. The Z90 is the better of the two cameras otherwise in my opinion.



And

alisterchapman
MARCH 9, 2018 AT 6:27 PM
A common problem is people comparing the low light performance of a S35mm camcorder with a camcorder with a much smaller sensor with much smaller pixels. The two will never perform the same. The NX80/Z90 are a generation later than the Z150 and NX100 and have a better sensor and better AF




Return to posts index


Michael Slowe
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 15, 2018 at 1:55:29 pm

There you have it then, Z90 probably better than the Z150, although it's a bit late for me. I do prefer having proper rings on the lens for focus, zoom and aperture though, how does the Z90 operate without them?

Michael Slowe


Return to posts index

Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 15, 2018 at 11:45:47 pm

Michael,

According to the article Craig mentioned, there is an adjustment knob on the left side of the camera, it's cylindrical and points forward. Behind it are three buttons, Iris, ISO/Gain and Shutter Speed, whichever of those are pressed determines the function of the adjustment knob. Certainly not quite the same as the separate focus and iris rings on the EX-1, but I think I could get used to this arrangement given the stellar AF features this camera has.

Cheers,

KH


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 16, 2018 at 2:39:07 am

Because I'm not changing shutter speed and rarely changing gain during a shoot, I use that button for Iris and it's very easy to reach and use (for me).



Return to posts index


Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 15, 2018 at 10:34:39 pm

All,

Well, I'm quite happy I started this thread. My review of the specs for both cameras is through the B&H website, as I can not seem to locate either camera on the sony.com website. Does this mean that either or both of these units may be up for a refresh soon? Also, thanks to Craig for that link, it shed much light on this topic and was a big help. Apparently I need to learn more when reviewing specs ๐Ÿ˜‰

The confusing thing is that usually the higher the part number the "better" or "newer" it is. This distinction is also made with price as the Z150 is about $500 more and looks far more like the EX-1 than does the Z90V. Unless I'm missing something in my browsing, it would be GREAT if the age of these cameras was listed to help people like me who are still learning.

That being said, you're all suggesting I go Z90V as it is newer and has a much better autofocus, and for the shooting I do, that would be a welcome change. My EX-1, I just discovered, has some AF issues that for the first time in over 1,400 clips, left me with blurry video.

I like the fact that I will spend about $500 less on the Z90V over the Z150, and one last question I have is, can I get a wide-angle lens (like the screw-on WA lens made for the EX-1) and can I get it from Sony as opposed to an aftermarket version?

You have all been very gracious with your time and knowledge. If there are other features the Z90V has over the Z150, please share as I'm enjoying the learning process here.

Many, MANY thanks!!!


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 16, 2018 at 2:45:08 am

The Z90 is very new. Only about 3 or 4 months old.
The Z150 is about 2 years old (early 2016).
You can easily judge the approximate release of the cameras by looking at the data of the first review on major sales sites like B&H, Adorama, Amazon even.

The difference in price is due to size. I suspect the Z150 may be close to being updated to match the Z90 features. Wait until NAB and see what happens. If there's no announcement by NAB then it's probably many months away.

There are wide angle adaptors for the Z90 but I'm not sure if any from Sony themselves.



Return to posts index

Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 16, 2018 at 9:27:16 pm

Craig,

Thanks again for the details. NAB isn't far away, so as difficult as it may be for me to wait on buying the new camera, I probably should. It will be curious to see if the Z150 does get the improvements, and if so, how that will affect the price.

Another train of thought would be, why upgrade the Z150 with Z90 specs if the Z90 is only a few months old, that seems as though it could cannibalize sales of the newer model so soon into its run.

Again, many thanks!

Sincerely,

KH


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 16, 2018 at 11:12:05 pm

[Keith Henderson] "Another train of thought would be, why upgrade the Z150 with Z90 specs"

True. Some might want the Z90 in a larger body. Of course they may add even more feature to a newer model but I can't imagine what those would be. It's quite possible the Z90 will lead in features for a while.

Looking at recent history, the X70 came out in late 2014. The Z150 came out in early 2016. The Z90 (same body as X70 but with new features) came out in late 2017 (or early 2018). So it's possible the Z150 wont be updated for another year. Each camera may be updated every 3 years or thereabouts.



Return to posts index

Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Apr 10, 2018 at 3:52:08 pm

Craig,

I spoke with a gentleman at the Sony booth while attending NAB yesterday, and the long and short of it is, he said the Z150 was not getting the Hybrid AF as used in the Z90V. Two new cameras were on display that were brand, brand, brand new, and thei prices were in the $4,500-$6,000 range.

He was a rep for Sony but not an employee, apparently a well-respected shooter (I'll get his name today when I return to the show). The clincher for me was this statement: "I don't work for Sony, so I buy my cameras. I owned the Z150 and the Z90V and I just sold the Z150 and kept the Z90V."

That's all I needed to hear. I'll update this post should I get any additional info.

Thanks!

Cheers,

KH


Return to posts index

Jeremy Cole
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 17, 2018 at 11:02:09 am

I have both the Ex1r and an FS5 with the Sony 18-110 lens. The FS5 is a very light camera with 8bit 4K, 10bit HD and the ability to shoot raw with the upgrade and an external recorder. If you want to shoot log, though, it is not the camera to get. The FS7 is really closer to the Ex1(r). Add the 18-110 lens and you have all the capabilities of the EX1 plus 10bit 4K and so much more. It will serve you way into the future. I rarely use auto focus, so I can't comment on that other than to say that push auto works quite well when I have used it on the FS5. I use the camera with a variety of lens in addition to the 18-110, but the lens I leave on the camera is the 18-110. It has a lovely smooth manual and power zoom, as well as focus. Works rather like the lens on the Ex1(r). Good luck.

Regards,
Jeremy


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 17, 2018 at 3:09:52 pm

FS7II with 18-110 lens. Great Camera... for $12,000.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296066-REG/sony_pxw_fs7m2k_pxw_fs7_...



Return to posts index

Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 18, 2018 at 7:37:31 pm

Craig,

I forgot to ask earlier, what sort of lens cap/cover arrangement does the Z90 have?

Cheers,

KH


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 18, 2018 at 11:12:20 pm

The kind that comes off and you can lose. Not built in like the EX1.



Return to posts index


Keith Henderson
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 18, 2018 at 7:36:29 pm

Jeremy,

Thank you for the recommendations, I appreciate the info and in the process, I'm learning a lot from this thread.

Though the FS-5 is a bit less than I paid for my EX-1, I'm not in need of interchangeable lenses. Craig, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on the FS5 just for kicks. The FS7 looks lovely, but $12K is way past my budget.

Many thanks!

KH


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 18, 2018 at 11:16:28 pm

I went back and forth over getting the FS5 as it has a lot of very useful features not found in many other cameras. The built in Variable ND is one. Another is the 2x zoom which would be useful if you need to reframe if you're using a prime lens.

Ultimately, for the kind of ENG style stuff I shoot, changing lenses doesn't make sense. I also find smaller is better although the FS5 is pretty light and small.

For "cinema" style shooting I use a Blackmagic Pocket camera .
The FS5 would be a very good documentary camera though.



Return to posts index

Jeremy Cole
Re: EX-1 Replacement
on Mar 19, 2018 at 1:20:47 pm

Hi Keith,
Another camera to consider if you are looking for a fixed lens camera and are willing to go outside the Sony world is the Panasonic DVX200. It is certainly in your price range and has numerous professional capabilities along with internal 8bit 4K and variable frame rate up to 120 fps in HD.

Regards,
Jeremy


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2018 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]