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EX1R and FS7 - how to match?

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Bob Cole
EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 13, 2017 at 4:46:42 pm

I plan to use my EX1R as a B camera on an interior (office) shoot with an FS7.

Have you done this? I would like the cameras to match as closely as possible, and would appreciate any advice as to Picture Profiles, etc.

Thanks.

Bob C


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Blaise Douros
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 13, 2017 at 5:12:16 pm

There's no easy, fast answer to this; you need to hook up both cameras to a monitor, preferably one with a waveform scope, and start fiddling. The FS7 has more dynamic range than the EX1R, so you probably, for better or for worse, need to set up the EX1R to look the way you like, and match the FS7 to that look.

Obviously, you'll want to shoot in Rec709 gamma on the FS7. Beyond that, I'm guessing that the EX1R is more contrasty, so you'll want to dial in your settings in the Paint menu to match.


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Bob Cole
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 13, 2017 at 6:03:39 pm

Thank you Blaise.

Great point about the FS7's range, and testing with a waveform monitor is undoubtedly the right way to do it.

I'm not going to have access to the FS7 until the morning of the shoot, and so I was hoping to get at least a starting point using the EX1R's Picture Profile settings.


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Tom Laughlin
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 13, 2017 at 11:27:17 pm

Doug Jensen with Vortex Media has released online Sony FS5 and FS7 training, that may or may not address your questions, however, I've always searched his website, Allister Chapman, and Philip Bloom's blog, and website.

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Salt Lake City, Utah
digitalchophouse.com


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 15, 2017 at 2:46:43 pm

There are two 'gurus' on Picture Profiles. Doug Jensen with his Vortex Media Masterclasses (my bible, depending on the camera) and Alister Chapman (@ingenioustv.com). I find Jensen less caught up with technologies and a better explainer. He takes the 'neutral' feel of the Sony picture that you get 'out of the box', and adapts it with brilliant explanation. A look at his stuff for your given camera is a must in my opinion.

Michael Slowe


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Bob Cole
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 16, 2017 at 7:15:32 pm

I appreciate all of the responses. Though ideal, testing and set-up in advance will not be possible. In response to this exact question, Alister Chapman writes, "I have not done scene files to match FS7 to EX1/EX3 etc. But if you use Cinegamma on an EX1 and Hypergamma on the FS7 the contrast will be similar."

Perhaps the most useful specific information would be: which Hypergamma setting on the FS7 relates best to the EX1R's stock Cinegamma?

Thanks again.

Bob C


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David Speace
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 18, 2017 at 8:37:11 pm

I too still have an EX1R and yes, it's a great camera. I have an FS5 and I really like it. The kit lens works for me, especially for run and gun shooting! There is most definitely a learning curve and there are certain issues that can crop up. I would suggest that you go to the FS5 groups on Facebook. There are a lot of daily posts that could help you in deciding if this is a go to camera! The camera's light weight is amazing! I also have the F3 camera and the X70. The X70, for me, is a great B-camera! Hope this helps a little. I haven't been on these forums lately.

Dave Speace
Producer/Director/DP
DZP Video

Windows 7, 64 Bit, i7 8 Core, 16Gb Ram, GeForce 4800


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Bob Cole
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 18, 2017 at 10:38:20 pm

Dave, would you mind sharing which Picture Profile/Hypergamma settings you use when you are using both your EX1R and your FS5?

Bob C


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David Speace
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 19, 2017 at 6:35:05 pm

I have only used the EX1R with the Sony F3 camera. And it's been awhile since I have used these combinations. We would shoot tests before hand! I don't really remember what settings I used. Lately I use the FS5 with the X70 camera... X70 is set to PP6 which is a cinema color print look. FS5 gamma is set to cine1, color mode cine settings. We use Lumetri in Premiere CC. Usually not hard to match. Always need to lower/adjust the saturation settings.

Dave Speace
Producer/Director/DP
DZP Video

Windows 7, 64 Bit, i7 8 Core, 16Gb Ram, GeForce 4800


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Jim Cunningham
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 21, 2017 at 1:39:51 pm

I too am shooting w/ the FS5 & X70 ( I also have the EX1R, and have had to match it w/ the X70). I have tended to set the PP to default along w/ the preset color balance, then match skin tones in Lumitri . That usually gets into a very small ballpark, and I can tweak it into a reasonable match. So much depends on how the cameras are being used. W/ the EX1R & the X70, the EX1R was a wide shot of the entire stage w/ the X70 as MCU of a presenter which was relatively easy to match. W/ the FS5 & X70, I'm typically shooting the same interviewee at different angles. So, I find if I crop in on skin and match parade & vector (with other minor tweaks) it's acceptable. But this is definitely a work in progress.

I did take Jensen's course on the FS 5 and sent him a question regarding matching FS5 & X70. He responded that he didn't have access the the X70 so couldn't help.

I'd love to get some additional input on this subject. For me, shooting w/ multiple cameras is become the norm, and establishing best practices would be most helpful.

Good luck,
Jim



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Glen Kantziper
Re: EX1R and FS7 - how to match?
on Jan 30, 2017 at 4:45:28 pm

I did a 3 camera shoot with 2 EX3s and my FS7 as wide. They matched really, really well. What I did was turn everything off on the EX cameras picture profile wise. TLCS off STD too whatever that does. Then set the FS7 to STD5 and everything else to my recollection was as plain vanilla as possible. Of course set all cameras to the same resolution, frame rate, etc...I did white balance them all but ended up just using preset WB and it was absolutely acceptable. The exercise made me want to pick up a used EX1/3 as a b camera!


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Ed Mellnik
Re: EX1R N50
on Aug 23, 2017 at 12:20:43 am

I was looking at Used EX1R cameras... one had N50 on the bottom with the SS number. ANyone know what N50 means?

EMA VIDEO
Portland Oregon
emellnik@emavideo.com


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