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Tom Laughlin
Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 15, 2014 at 8:03:46 pm

Hey everyone, yes, I am posting a question that many have already dealt with from severals years ago, to present, even as new Sony cameras are released, media cards are still being used and some cheaper than others. I am just asking the general question:

"What alternative adaptors for SxS do you use?", and
"What SDHC cards have you shot and have had pretty good years worth of success with?"

I know Sony spokespeople like Doug Johnson are highly against using alternative media for Sony cameras, but not everyone can SHELL out that kind of money for 8, 16, and 32GB Sony SxS cards, I mean come on! I've ready people are using e-Films, MxR, Sonnet, and Digigear Adaptors, and Digigear being one of the cheapest at $24 on Amazon.

Transcend has recently released a new 64 and 128GB SDHC Class 10 cards (Sandisk as well I think), that is not very much $, so I'm curious as to your comments, and the amount of cards you use, how many of each, what brands, and what adaptors you use for PAID work, Reality TV, Docs, Films, TV channels like Discovery, History, Animal Planet, whatever, just want to know about what are you using, as far as "off-brand cards" with your Sony EX1s and EX3s?

Thanks!

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Ian Cook
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 15, 2014 at 8:22:21 pm

The failure rate on even the best SD cards is several times that of the cheapest SxS card. Also if you have a problem there is much less we can do for you with non-SxS media. If you have to use SD cards please use the Sony SD02 adaptor.


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 15, 2014 at 8:39:19 pm

Thanks Ian. Anyone else use various SxS adaptors and SDHC cards? Please share.

Thanks,

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 15, 2014 at 8:42:39 pm

Ian, one question, after reading up on the "Sony SD02 adaptor", what the mechanical difference between this card vs any other card, other than the brand being Sony. Does Sony manufactures Sony SD02 adaptors a certain way, or could they be any card under the hood, but with Sony's brand mark on them, which makes them $134, that's pretty high, even for the adaptors on the market.

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Ian Cook
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 15, 2014 at 8:58:28 pm

very little to speak if as far as 'mechanical differences' but we use quality components and we control the manufacturing and specification.


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Enrique Orozco
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 19, 2014 at 2:23:22 pm

I have YEARS using my EX3 with both SxS and MxR adapters with sandisk 16 gig cards... recently I got a Sonnet adapter with a sandisk extreme 32 gig card (newer) that seems to perform some operations "faster" in the camera (like erasing all clips)... absolutely ZERO problems.. just take a little more care when using adapters......

regards

Enrique Orozco R.
http://www.dvideostudio.com >iDEA DigitalVideoStudio


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 19, 2014 at 2:39:45 pm
Last Edited By Tom Laughlin on May 19, 2014 at 2:41:00 pm

Enrique,

Do have have any comment on the usage of some of the cheaper adapters like he ones made by Digigear or Sonnet, the ones under $30-40? Also, the sandisk extreme cards you use, are they the sandisk sdhc Or Sdxc cards, can you send me an amazon.com link?

Thanks,

Tom

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Ian Cook
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 19, 2014 at 2:53:39 pm

I'm glad you have avoided any issues but it's not simply a matter of 'taking care with the cards'. SDHC cards fail in the EXs with much higher frequency than SxS cards. The math doesn't lie. Also they tend to be made with cheaper memory and lack any kind of buffer management. Some users go years with no issues, others call me in a panic at 10 pm on a weekend with 'Media Cannot be Restored' errors or missing clips. If the cards were totally unsafe or unreliable we wouldn't let you use them so I'm not trying to scare anyone off of them. But you are taking a risk.


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 19, 2014 at 4:16:33 pm

Ian, what is the failure rate of these off brand adapters vs the "Sony SD02 adaptor"? If it's virtually the same thing? Just curious...

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Ian Cook
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 19, 2014 at 4:29:46 pm

the adaptors rarely fail; it's the cards we have to watch


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Michael Slowe
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 20, 2014 at 2:35:38 pm

It's the same as the old days, who then would not use the very best film available to shoot? You only have one chance with original material, seems crazy to me that anyone would consider taking any risks. If money is a very big problem, use a cheaper camera, rather than cheaper cards (film / tape).

Michael Slowe


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 20, 2014 at 2:55:31 pm

Ian & Michael,

You both gave me a lot to think about and coincidentally, many others whom I've talked to are all in the same choir, and I think I've been over-whelmed at how many are actually against this risky usage of alternative media and why.

I guess now, my question is, how to go about upgrading my PMW-EX1's firmware, which I checked, and my version is V1.02. So, my guess is, this camera us pretty old, but still a great camera, and what is the best way to update this camera to use the more current cards? I also asked around, and it appears that not only can I NOT use (yet) the SxS-1 cards, but I cannot use the SxS Pro 32GB cards either, only the 8's and 16's. I guess this is not a huge problem, but it's nice to have enough cards right now to get me by rather than just a few 8's.

eBay?

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Ian Cook
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 20, 2014 at 3:19:51 pm

you should update. you are at too low a version to do it yourself so it would have to go to Sony. afterwards you'll be able to install updates on your own.


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 21, 2014 at 4:29:19 pm

Ian, who do I send it to, how long will it take, and how much?

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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Ian Cook
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 21, 2014 at 4:34:44 pm

Sony Pro in CA. They'll charge 2 hrs labor (135 x 2 = 270) and will do a lens alignment and function check afterwards. Call it in to support or email me and we'll get you the paperwork. 800 883 6817. Turnaround time is a few days, less if you have an urgent ETA in which case we can schedule you.


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Pushpanatha de Silva
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 31, 2014 at 6:07:47 am

In Australia they took 2days and cost me A$280 upgraded to V1.31

Dell Workstation Precision T7500
Dell Workstation Laptop Precision M6600
Dell HD Monitors
Sony PMW EX1
Panasonic MX3300


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Pushpanatha de Silva
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 31, 2014 at 6:06:25 am

For firmware upgrades(from V1.02)better to handover Sony Authorised dealer for upgrade upto V1.31. They have special jig to do that. Don't try to upgrade the f/w if u have v1.2 for urself and it will be end up in a brick version n may have to spend over $1000 to fix the hardware problems. TakeCare..

Dell Workstation Precision T7500
Dell Workstation Laptop Precision M6600
Dell HD Monitors
Sony PMW EX1
Panasonic MX3300


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 22, 2014 at 8:19:30 pm

Foreword: I know this is a polarizing issue, almost religious at times. So if you think I'm full of it, please just disregard.


I'm of the same mindset as Michael. If you're going to buy a $7,000-9,000 camera, which is dirt cheap compared to what many of us started out with, what's the problem with spending a couple grand on reliable media? Otherwise, do what the kids are doing: grab a couple of DSLRs, tell yourself they're camcorders, and buy all the cheap media you want.

The one appealing thing about using SD cards is that they're cheap enough to assign permanently to a project or even deliver to a customer down the road. You can still copy footage to SD cards later. But when it comes to acquisition, I guess I'm on the side that doesn't see the risk vs. reward equation coming out on a positive.

Cf


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Mike Cohen
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 23, 2014 at 5:29:52 pm

While plenty of people have had no issues, most video work is too important to risk having a problem. Using SD cards with a camera which has a native SD slot is one thing, but using an adapter is basically putting a square block into a round hole.

I read an article about Anthony Bourdain's travel the world shows. The crew uses Sony F3 or F5 cameras, and some smaller Sonys as needed, and treat their SxS cards like tapes. Shoot, fill a card, and pack it away until they get back to New York. Granted we don't all have the budget to buy 50 SxS cards!

Mike Cohen


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Thomas Sherry
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on Nov 10, 2015 at 9:02:10 pm

When it comes to SD, are 64 gig cards less reliable than 32 gig?


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Brent Dunn
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 23, 2014 at 7:33:55 pm

I'm still using my older SD cards that I've had for a few years. I also have one 32G SxS card. The SxS cards are workhorses and have saved me from loosing data when a battery ran out on a shoot mid recording. I had that happen on an SD card and lost everything on the card. That's the big difference.

I would suggest having at least one 32 SxS card.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro
with Final Cut Studio Adobe CS6 Production






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Don Greening
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on May 24, 2014 at 11:59:17 pm

What Ian, Clint, Mike and Michael said..........

When SD cards and adapters first became available for these cameras even Philip Bloom said "They're too risky." The savings of using cheaper SDHC cards are not worth losing customers and your reputation over in MHO. I practice safe SxS.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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jim stamos
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on Jun 2, 2014 at 10:15:38 pm

Tom
its alot cheaper than buying sxs cards. worth getting the sony for their cameras. i would not buy the hoodman adaptor. had my shooter using one for a shoot and it failed on him. had to take one of my sony adaptors to him, no issue at all. im not taking that chance to save a few bucks.
134.00 is nothing considering what we charge to shoot, youll make that back on one job


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jim stamos
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on Jun 2, 2014 at 3:35:53 am

I have an ex1r and have used sxs religiously for years.
3 weeks ago i had a huge dance recital that lasted from 8:30am to 6:30pm.i had no time to transfer footage between shows so i had to take my chances with the sony adapter/sandisc class 10 extremes.otherwise id pay a fortune for more sxs cards.
im glad to say i had zero problems. i was always hesitant to use them in the past but in this case i had no choice or blow out a ton on more sxs cards. i had close to 17 hours of footage on 2 cameras. ive already edited them and produced 550 dvds for the client.
I would say you can trust them


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on Jun 4, 2014 at 8:27:19 pm

I inferred from your post that you rolled long clips on the-all day event, and that was probably a good, safe bet. It's important to note that you may be more likely to experience problems with one of those adapters if you do a lot of starting and stopping.

It's critical that you let the card finish writing before starting a new recording, and because of the reduced speed (presumably since the adapters are an internal USB interface) they don't finish writing nearly as quickly as the real thing.

This is presuming that you have good, fast cards that don't slowly fill up a buffer somewhere over several hours of constant recording. That'd get ugly.

This, if I remember correctly, is why overcranking is not recommended with an adapter. I changed jobs and was out of the XDCAM EX community for a while, but I was finally able to rectify that with a trio of PMW200's. :)

Cf


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jim stamos
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on Jun 4, 2014 at 10:05:10 pm

yea these were 1 1/2 hours recitals, so no stopping but i have shot weddings as well and at receptions i have hundreds of clips starting and stopping no issues.


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Tom Laughlin
Re: Sony SxS Cards VS. SxS-SDHC Adaptors
on Jun 22, 2014 at 3:25:33 pm

Has anyone been able to confirm the wrote speeds of sd cards and how wrote speeds are changed when using adapters?

What I'm referring to is kind of like when back in the day, people were using cheaper non-Panasonic DV tapes to use with their DVX-100s. Few got tapes gummed up, most people used other brands and didn't care and saved money... So it's kind of like that...

I just want to know what exactly it is, technically and internally, that makes the SxS cards better or superior to Adaptors? I'd also like to know what is the mechanical difference between one adaptor than another? Quality? Is there one adaptor than performs faster than another? Is it like a Sony DVD versus a jvc DVD? Is it all the same but stamped with a different brand?

SxS cards from Sony, who actually manufactures them, before sony brands them?

Sandisk makes official SxS media compatible with Sony, how does that work? Do they both have their SxS cards made at the same factory? Is the like name brand versus "Western Family" or "Great Value"?

Sd cards create digital data, and SxS creates digital data.
Sd cards create BPAV folders, and SxS cards create BPAV folders... What are the distinctions and other than sony controlling the product and how it's made, is there some special blend of spices here that I'm not detecting? Any media card of any kind can fail. Failure rates aren't the question, it's the sd vs SxS media file creation and optimization process I'm wanting to know more about. If I eject an SxS card out before it finishes writing to the card, of course I'm going to have issues. That seems pretty obvious. Is it a sony loyalist and security blanket thing, or is it something else?

Any additional thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Digital Chop House
Salt Lake City, Utah
http://www.digitalchophouse.com


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