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UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)

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SHARIF AL-HAJ
UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 3, 2013 at 10:21:02 pm

Hi Everyone!

I have no problem working with either of these two formats with my camera. But I am trying to understand the specific details. What is the advantage of filming UDF over FAT?

For instance,

I am filming my stuff in Standard Definition format. I can use either FAT or UDF in this case, I can even film HD in FAT mode according to my understanding, however, if I wanted to record HD 50mb/s then I would have to switch to UDF.

I don't understand it at all. And what does mb/s have to do with recording. for instance recording HD 50mb/s vs HD 35mb/s ?

What are the advantages of UDF over FAT and vice versa. When should I use one over the other?

Also,

I have noticed that FCP 7 does not import UDF Files but it does import FAT files in the "File & Transfer" window. I import my UDF Files through a program called XDCAM Browser (also capable of importing FAT Files) which takes my files and creates .mov files from them and from there I can easily import the .mov files into FCP 7.

I have the following drivers installed and running in my computer in case you are wondering

1. SxS Device Driver Mac
2. SxS UDF Driver
3. Log and Transfer Plug in Version 1-1.2 for Apple Final Cut Pro 7

Anyway I am just trying to understand the full picture of my questions. I have no problem importing UDF or FAT files from my SxS card but just trying to understand

A.) UDF vs FAT
B.) Mb/s in Recording on card
C.) Why FCP cannot see my UDF Files but only FAT

All the Best!

Thank You Very Much and Of course looking forward for your input!


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 3, 2013 at 11:59:53 pm

UDF and FAT refer to the file systems used on the media. XDCAM originated on optical disc media which uses the UDF file system. XDCAM EX came a bit later as a solid state recording format and used the Fat32 file system. When you select UDF or FAT you are formatting the card in one of these file systems and using the respective video format associated with it.

In real world terms UDF = HD 4:2:2 50 Mbps recording, a codec that was originally only available on optical disc XDCAM models. This is a very high quality record format with a higher data rate and higher color sampling than the EX formats, which are limited to 35 Mbps and 4:2:0 color sub sampling. The Mbps value refers, generally speaking, to the data rate of the video. Higher data rates = more information = better resolution, detail and color.

The UDF driver is a file system driver for reading what is essentially an optical disc file system on solid state memory. Without it you can still transfer files but the speed will be very slow and the media will be read-only.

Ian Cook
Sony Broadcast and Professional Services


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SHARIF AL-HAJ
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 4:20:12 pm

Thank you Ian for the reply and explanation!

So is it safe to say that filming in UDF (SD/HD) is the better way to go?

I work for a broadcasting news agency that has not made the switch to HD yet. So for now filming will be done in Standard Definition. Does it make a difference is I record in UDF SD vs FAT SD? and is it possible to record 50mbps in Standard Definition?

Thank You Very Much and Of course looking forward for your input!


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 5:54:05 pm

For SD you will be using the same codec in either mode but it's probably better to do UDF mode anyway. The file will be a standard XDCAM .mxf file and you will not have to deal with any issues recording long file. In FAT mode there is a 4 GB file size limit so long recordings get segmented into sequential video clips.


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SHARIF AL-HAJ
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:18:03 pm

So Ian,

If recording in SD is the same in FAT & UDF. And HD has a better mbps (50) in UDF, and UDF files do not limit themselves to 4GB. Then what is FAT good for ?

Thank You Very Much and Of course looking forward for your input!


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:35:31 pm

the 50 Mb codec is an HD format, not an SD format.

FAT mode allows you to match to XDCAM EX camcorders (EX1, EX3 etc)


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SHARIF AL-HAJ
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:37:47 pm

Correct 50mbps is a HD format but only in UDF. I don't think 50mbps can be attained in FAT HD format?

Thank You Very Much and Of course looking forward for your input!


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:54:20 pm

no, it cannot, see my original post, 50 Mb is the main reason to use UDF


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SHARIF AL-HAJ
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:05:10 pm

Thank you Ian!

Thank You Very Much and Of course looking forward for your input!


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Nicholaus Mtawa
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Nov 2, 2013 at 11:15:42 pm

Sorry am using PMW-EX280 the same version like PMW-200 but it is in chinese version. Am getting stuck i want to use high quality recording format(50mbit/s) but my SxS Adapter card with 64GB sandisk card deny to be recorded by using UDF file system but only FAT i dont know where the conflict lay.

I appreciate your help.


Nicholaus Mtawa
Deepnic Media
Dar es salaam, Tanzania


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Nov 5, 2013 at 3:59:31 pm

For 50 Mb recording you must use UDF mode and UDF mode requires SxS media or XQD media. Memory Stick/SDHC is not supported.


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Nicholaus Mtawa
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Nov 8, 2013 at 7:22:23 am

Thank you Ian,

I have bought SxS Media and am getting all 50mbit/sec. Something weird arise again.

Am trying to ingest files of UDF format from camcorder (.mxf format) cannot be seen on Final Cut Pro 7 in a log and transfer window, while i was ingesting files from the same camera and same application shot on FAT format.

Note:
I have already installed
1. SxS Device driver (SxS_Device_Driver_v1052020)
2. SxSUDFDriver_v2.0.0
3. Log and Transfer Plug-In Version 1.2 for Apple Final Cut Pro 7 (XDCAM_EX_Log_and_Transfer_Plugin_1_2_0)

Still the problem persist. Please help me out to edit my files using FCP7 ingested using Log & Transfer as i did in a FAT format.


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Nov 8, 2013 at 3:39:41 pm

Log and Transfer plugin is a little add-on we made for EX only. You should use either the XDCAM Transfer or Content Browser plugin. Each adds Import/Export XDCAM items to FCP's FILE menu and both support UDF.

XDCAM Transfer is the one I;d recommend as it is extremely easy to operate and supports background processing (i.e. imports don't lock up the computer). Content Browser is a more full featured card/file management application.

XDCAM Transfer: http://www.sony.com/xdcam-downloads --> Applications, Plugins and Drivers tab-->Legacy Applications

Content Browser-->http://www.sony.com/xdcam-downloads-->Applications, Plugins and Drivers tab


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Nicholaus Mtawa
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Nov 10, 2013 at 2:22:13 pm

Thank you Ian Cook, am happy for joining this forum. Lots of my problems have been solved so far instantly.

Lastly, my PMW-EX280 it is a chinese version, is there any firmware update that can get my camera to English Language? I've been searching for it since i bought and ended up getting the update of PMW200/EX280 version 1.10 and it still deny to Update, any help!


Nicholaus Mtawa


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Nov 11, 2013 at 3:19:18 pm

No firmware update but see if there a a LANGUAGE option in the OTHERS menu


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Nguyen Anh
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Jan 13, 2014 at 4:41:03 am

Dear,

I have a problem with our Cam PMW-150.

Please tell me how to export to file .AVI with Pmw-150?

May be I have to change form UDF to FAT?

Thank you so much indeed!

Anh


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Brian Holloway
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Jun 1, 2016 at 6:06:07 am

Hey Ian,
Hope you don't mind me replying to such an old post. If you were recording on a PMW500 on a FAT formatted card on a to match an EX camcorder, would that allow the SxS card to be read by an EX recorder like the PMW-EX30?
Cheers!


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Walter Corbett csc
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Dec 11, 2013 at 2:39:00 pm

Ian is there a tutorial or some place that will tell me how to download from my SXS cards to my mac to a hard drive.
I downloaded the UDF Content Browser but nowhere that i can find are there any instructions on how to download the cards...I have a sony reader


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Ian Cook
Re: UDF VS FAT (Sony SxS Cards - PMW200/PMW400)
on Dec 11, 2013 at 3:35:16 pm

No, but it is a pretty simple process. Best practice is to use CB to drag the clips from the card to your drive (i.e. from one location in the Explorer Window to another). Make sure that CRC checking is enabled in Preferences-->Edit-->Copy. This adds verification to the process.

You can also do a 'Copy All' using the "ALL" button in the top left of each Explorer Window or by right clicking on a card and selecting "Copy All." This will clone the card to a location you can select.

You can also do Mac OS Finder (i.e. drag and drop or copy/paste) copies of the card though this is not recommended as there is no CRC/checksum verification. If you do find yourself having to manually copy the files, copy everything you see on the root level of the card to a new folder (e.g. "card 1"). Do not rename or modify the contents. If you put everything into a new folder Content Browser will treat that folder like an archive, meaning you will see the files as soon as you click on it.


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