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EX-1 and FAT32 drives

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Bob Richthammer
EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 11, 2012 at 1:59:53 pm

I have a client that is MAC based and I'm all PC. If I format an external hard drive to FAT 32 and use the Clipbrowser on my PC to transfer all of my clips to that drive, will I run into the 4 GB limit on FAT 32 or does Clipbrowser solve that problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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Ian Cook
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 11, 2012 at 2:29:34 pm

Neither the EX1 nor Clip Browser are capable of creating files larger than 4 GB so you should be fine. Long records on the cards are chopped into 'spanned' files that are less than 4 GB each and CB will not concatenate them. It will only copy them. Where you will run into trouble is if you or the editor try and use the same drive with FCP and XDCAM Transfer (or XDCAM Browser or Log and Transfer). When Transfer imports a spanned clip made up of multiple <4GB files it creates a single .mov and once that file reaches around 4 GB the import will fail with an "insufficient disk space" error.


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 2:46:36 am

Hi Ian

I thought XDCAM browser joined spanned clips if used for copying clips from a card to ext HDD..

I use a mac.. and format ext HDD for Mac.. but if a client wants a PC DOS formatted drive..(for the clips to be copied to) what are the pit falls here.. I would be shooting PMW500 422 UDF files.. what happens if clip length is over 4 GB..?

Thanks



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Don Greening
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 3:11:02 am

Paragon Software's NTFS for Mac allows you to read and write to any NTFS formatted HD, making the worry about copying files to a FAT32 formatted drive irrelevant.

For PC users, your solution is called MacDrive.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 3:32:22 am

Thanks Don

More software :).. Im trying to keep everything as lean/simple as possible.. :)

What alternatives would they have at the other end,if I say sorry its a mac formatted drive..

So if I use XDCAM browser to down load my UDF 422 files to a FAT DOS formatted drive.. they will have this problem when ingesting .. is that only FCP.. or AVID also.. so that would seem something I would never want to do then.. ?

What is the max GB file size for UDF 422 HD...

Thanks



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Don Greening
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 5:42:30 am

[Robin Probyn] "What alternatives would they have at the other end,if I say sorry its a mac formatted drive.. "

If you give them an NTSF formatted drive with your XDCAM files they'll have to either buy NTFS for Mac or find someone at their end who can transfer from their windows machine to a Mac OS Extended (HFS+) hard drive.

FAT32 formatting exists so that both Mac and Windows platforms can read and write to the drive without extra software. The downside is that there's a 4G file size limit with FAT32. I'm pretty sure Clip Browser can prepare XDCAM EX files for export to a FAT32 device. I would suspect that it would treat UDF files in the same manner. Research is needed to be sure.

Your situation has nothing to with NLEs, it's a platform issue.

If you continue to cater to Mac platform customers then you should really treat them the same as Windows platform customers and offer them a complete service. Buy some memory sticks from an office supply store then find someone you know locally with a Mac. Get that person to format your sticks in Mac OS Extended. Then you can write to those sticks with your Windows platform with MacDrive. If you want look after your Mac-based clients the path outlined above is simply the cost of doing business.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 4:51:17 pm

Hi Don

Some confusion maybe.. Im only using mac.. always have done.. it was more the other way round.. if i send a mac formatted drive to someone insisting on a windows formatted drive..

Thanks



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Don Greening
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 13, 2012 at 12:41:35 am

[Robin Probyn] "Some confusion maybe.. Im only using mac.. always have done.. it was more the other way round.. "

No Confusion. You're forgetting that the OP asked about PC to Mac advice. I was addressing both scenarios.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Ian Cook
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 1:54:28 pm

You don't want to use a FAT formatted drive for UDF files. You will hit the 4 GB limit quickly on 422 50Mb clips with 8 channels of 24 bit audio.

This has nothing to do with XDCAM; it's just how file systems work.

Browser will never join spanned EX clips when copying or exporting. The only exception is when you use it to rewrap for FCP, in which case it will output a concatenated clip of whatever size in an mov wrapper. Browser will also reject an EX .mp4 (for example, exported from FCP) over 4 GB if you try and import it manually to any location.

UDF refers to a file system (used on optical discs). it does not have a file size limit and will take virtually any file you can fit on the media. Likewise Browser will not restrict import/export of UDF files based on size. Again, the size restriction is a function of Fat32 formatting, which was chosen largely because of it's cross-platform read/write capability..

Hope this helps..


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 5:01:44 pm

Thanks Ian

So am I right in the following

Do not down load UDF SXS cards to a FAT formatted ext HDD.. (to be sent to clients) .

Recording in FAT mode its ok to down load to a FAT format drive (as its FAT anyway)

Does that mean that all PDW700/800 users never use FAT formatted drives.. as they are UDF files..

If Im shooting UDF and I'm asked to supply a windows formatted drive.. the only path is to use the software that Don mentioned..

Thanks again both of you for your time..



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Ian Cook
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 5:20:36 pm

correct all around.. PDW700/800 are optical disc based and strictly UDF. if you have to provide an NTFS drive that's just the way it is and you should think of it as an operating expense or bill them for it.


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 5:32:45 pm

if you have to provide an NTFS drive that's just the way it is and you should think of it as an operating expense or bill them for it.

Hi Ian

Thanks.. sorry to be thick .. but ..so how would I provide a NTFS formatted drive..? can I format a new drive in the mac to NTFS.. with disk utility.. ? and then its ok to down load the UDF files to a NTFS drive..

Thanks again for your time.. loving the PMW500 BTW..



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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 12, 2012 at 11:50:36 pm

ah just re read Dons reply.. I can't write direct to an NTFS drive.. without the software mentioned..

Thats correct is it not..?

Thanks



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Don Greening
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 13, 2012 at 12:47:37 am

[Robin Probyn] "Thats correct is it not..?"

It's correct. I use Paragon Software's NTSF for Mac constantly and It works as advertised. It's only 20 bucks.

http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 13, 2012 at 8:31:10 am

Hi Don

Ok.. thanks again for your advise sir



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Bob Mark
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 14, 2012 at 1:36:56 pm

You could format as exFat.

Bob


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 15, 2012 at 9:14:33 am

what is exFAT ?



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Bob Mark
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 15, 2012 at 12:42:35 pm

It is a format without the 4 gig limit that is supported by PC and Mac.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT

Bob


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 17, 2012 at 3:39:24 am

so this would seem to be the answer then..? wonder why neither Ian or Don mentioned it ?

Thanks



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Don Greening
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 17, 2012 at 6:08:31 am

[Robin Probyn] "wonder why neither Ian or Don mentioned it ? "

Because there are a number of limitations and disadvantages that makes exFAT unsuitable for widespread use at this time. Just have a look at all the issues with using exFAT in the same Wiki article. The biggest ones are that support is non-existent with anything other than the most recent operating systems as well as not being adopted by any of the flash drive manufacturers. Even Vista can't read exFAT without a service pack plug in.

Remember that Sony SxS memory is formatted with FAT32 for a reason. If exFAT was a common format it would most likely be in widespread use because of the absence of a file size restriction.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 17, 2012 at 12:02:04 pm

Ok thanks.. I see..



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Bob Mark
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 17, 2012 at 1:29:14 pm

I received an exfat formatted drive with EX files from an out of state company that uses Mac. I'm on PC and my Win 7 laptop had no problems with it. I can see that it's not very backward compatible though.

Bob


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Laura Matta
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 22, 2012 at 7:43:46 pm

I work on Mac and have all my ext HDD formatted on exFAT.
My clients have no problems at all (Microsoft has an update for ex FAT and even Windows XP works perfect with it). I don't know if they are another kind of issues with this format.
Laura


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Robin Probyn
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 23, 2012 at 1:00:32 am

Hi Laura

Did you chose ex FAT because you are not shooting in FAT.. and the 4GB file size restriction of FAT32 is a problem.. ?



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Laura Matta
Re: EX-1 and FAT32 drives
on Jun 24, 2012 at 2:44:47 am

I have to work on many types of files (not only shooting, but also archive files) and some are bigger than 4gb. I need to have files organized in thematic bins in the same hdds. I first tried to use a NTFS mounter for mac and i lost all my data on external hdd (!!!, needed to recover with specific sotware!). Now i have been using exFat for 4 months, so far we are good, if anybody has more experience i would be grateful.


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