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Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery

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Dave Graack
Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 18, 2012 at 7:35:46 pm

I am about to shoot a three camera fitness video using Sony EX1Rs. The delivery format will be standard definition DVD. I am not sure what format is best to capture in 1080p, 1080i or 720p. I know this has been posted before but a clear cut answer never seems to come from it. My dilemma is that almost every DVD player made today is progressive. Every HDTV made today is progressive using 1080p or 720p. Why are there so many people pushing for 1080i. It seems like 1080i would be going against the grain. Unless there is a real good reason. Can someone help me out? Keep in mind my subjects will be moving a lot in this dance fitness video.

Thanks,
Dave


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Craig Seeman
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 18, 2012 at 8:40:22 pm

Most HDTV broadcasts are 1080i, some are 720p though depending on the Network.

One issue is temporal resolution. 1080i60 has more temporal (motion) resolution than 1080p30.
720p60 might be the best alternative as it has the high temporal resolution and some find downconverting from 720 to standard def to be better than 1080.

So what's best may depend on content and whether or how it will be multi-purposed.

I'm sure others will post details based on a variety of situations.



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Dave Graack
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 18, 2012 at 10:01:15 pm

The only distribution will be DVD. With most DVD players and TVs being progressive these days why wouldn't everyone shoot in 1080/30p or 720/60p? Does compressor or Bitvice change the files back to interlaced when making m2v files?


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Michael Slowe
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 1:40:32 am

I have to say that shooting 1080i ( PAL) has always given me first rate results when I use BitVice for encoding for DVD, regardless of the amount of movement of the subject matter. The point about downscaling for the DVD may be valid but one very good feature of the latest versions of BitVice is the quality of their down scaling.

Michael Slowe


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Bob Mark
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 2:12:12 pm

When I am doing a project for DVD, I shoot 720p. The down converted image looks a bit more pleasing to me. I have shot 1080 before for DVD, but found the down converted picture had aliasing in fine detail areas. I think that may have been a function of rendering to MPEG2 directly from the timeline in Sony Vegas Pro using MainConcept. I'm sure some dedicated encoders would have done a better job with 1080. That would require an additional render for me. Do some testing with various formats and see what you like. The rescaling of HD to SD causes problems.

Bob


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Craig Seeman
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 3:27:54 pm

Articles worth reading on going from HD to SD and DVD

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2009/11/getting-sd-from-hd-and-the-problems-of-ov...

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/03/getting-good-sd-from-an-hd-camera/



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Dave Graack
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 8:03:18 pm

The image quality is not what I am worried about. I have had success in the past scaling down 1080i to 480i using Bitvice. I am worried about the quality of progressive scan DVD players out there. I don't want strobe like movement in my video. All standard def DVD is 480! correct? Maybe that is why some people shoot in 1080i. Even if I shot 720p the video would be downscaled and converted to 480i using compressor or Bitvice. Then forced back to progressive by the DVD player. The question still remains which format will play back smooth and clean over the widest variety of DVD players?


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Ron Pestes
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 8:48:58 pm

I have done extensive testing using all the frame rates that my EX-3 shoots and the best DVD came from 1080/60i. The motion is very smooth and the picture looked great. I am not sure why this is since DVD's are burned in 720p but that is the way it turned out.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro
Dell M6600
New convert to Adobe CS5.5 Production Premium


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Dave Graack
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 9:11:29 pm

Thanks Ron, The EX1R and the EX3 are pretty much the same camera internally. Did you use Compressor or Bitvice to make your files?

Dave


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Ron Pestes
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 10:19:15 pm

I have always used Compressor.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro
Dell M6600
New convert to Adobe CS5.5 Production Premium


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Ronnie Martin
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Jan 19, 2012 at 9:46:35 pm

I have been shooting 1920x1080i now ever since the first Ex-1 came out. My end product had been SD DVD. My main project has been auto mobile racing and delivery either for TV or for DVD. In the past I down converted with virtual dub (free software) to 720x480 and then out to DVD from the Edius 5.51 time line. Now that Eduis 6.06 is out if the DVD is going to be less than 90 minutes I use Edius to down convert (simply change project settings to 720x480)and burn my disk from the timeline. Excellent results.

If I need an extensive complicated menu then I use a third party program like TMPG or DVDit or even Ulead WS2. If WS2 handeled 16x9 menus better I would use it for everything. Very simple and great results. Most of the local affiliates that I have delt with only want 1080i not progressive. Of course whether you shoot progressive or interlaced is a personal preference and the "look" that you want. Some folks like the "progressive" look or a "film" look. I personally want a "video" look to my projects. Like some say "beauty is is the eye of the beholder"..

I think that you will get excellent results with the Ex camera family regardless . We have three of the cameras in this family (EX-1R, EXS-3 and the PMW 320) Our experence shooting interlaced has been super.

good luck
Ronnie Martin
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com

Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com
http://www.ramtv.tv


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Stephen May
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Feb 3, 2012 at 3:17:02 pm

Dave - what was the outcome of your quest to figure out the best EX format for SD delivery?

I recently switched a live show for Zumiez using three EX1 cameras and two EX3 cameras. It turned out that the HD-SDI switcher did not like the PsF output of the XDCAM's but loved the 1080i format. I was pretty nervous because post event, the client gets the ISO's off of the SxS cards as well as the switched master from the AJA KiPro, and usually they're mostly web delivery so they don't get interlaced.

The images looked fantastic on screen and the show was the focus, so we were fine for show, but afterwards, my preference would be to convert the files to progressive. I'd appreciate hearing what you ended up doing. I also have searched and searched for some kind explanation about 1080i. I even hooked up a single EX1 directly to a large flat-panel display, and it seemed to look best in 1080i.

Sports networks often send a 1080i signal too, and again, why? There is so much misinformation or at least people who can not agree on anything from spatial resolution to even if it is really 60 frames per second or 30 odd, 30 even, and each person who tells their opinion is completely certain but often in direct conflict with the next certain opinion. Please let us know what you ended up doing, and how it looked.

Stephen May
Keystone Media Productions
Freelance Videographer


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Dave Graack
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Feb 4, 2012 at 2:28:24 am

OUTCOME: Ended up shooting in 1080!. The show looked fantastic! We ran the 3 EX1 cameras into a Panasonic AW-HS50N HD switcher and recorded to an AJA KiPro in HD 1080i. It was so easy. The switcher took three sdi signals from the cameras and backed up iso records in the cameras. The HS50N is a tiny switcher but has multiview capability. The final DVD looked great. I edited in 1080i and used BitVice to make the compression. All it had to do was scale the size down to 480i for DVD. If I would have shot in 1080p I would be asking either Compressor Or BitVice to do the pulldown and scale down the file. Client was very happy.

Dave


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Stephen May
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Feb 11, 2012 at 4:57:44 pm

Dave - thanks for the follow up - sounds like you did a great job. I think my challenge is that I have very few clients that request DVD delivery. Thanks again for your reply - I've been busy and hadn't checked back until this morning. -Stephen

Stephen May
Keystone Media Productions
Freelance Videographer


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Dave Graack
Re: Shooting 1080p or 1080I for SD DVD Delivery
on Feb 13, 2012 at 4:13:53 pm

Hi Stephen, Thanks for the feedback. The switcher we used was the PanasonicAW-HS50N. The only formats it could do were 1080i or 720p. If I were shooting for web delivery I would have set it up for 720p. I know it is not the full size that 1080p is but most web content is not larger than 720p. Not to mention that 720p is YouTube native for HD content. Something to chew on.

Dave


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