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EX1R down conversion to DVD SD

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Robert Mosner
EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 1, 2011 at 6:01:10 pm

I've read a fair amount on the poor quality from the EX1R when down converted to DVD SD. I've also watched Vortex Medias training videos for the EX1R. Doug states a lot of the videos is shot with the EX1 / R. The quality of his DVD's are outstanding. Obviously the camera can produce excellent DVD videos. Any suggestions on the best way to down convert from 1080 30p with the best possible results would be appreciated. FYI I use Final Cut for editing.

Thanks



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 1, 2011 at 6:11:30 pm

This is a hotly debated issue.
Some say shoot 720 if your intention is to downconvert.
Doug at Vortex Media seems to edit HD in an SD timeline (probably ProRes).

I've also had issues downconverting from 1080p30. The problems show themselves with fine lines which twitter on camera motion on SD DVD for me. Some suggest adding a very very slight blur. Others claim using very good encoding software (not Compressor) will result in good downconverts. In my observation content is a big factor. BTW the issue isn't so much that the EX is deficient in any way. The problem really is that the EX resolves so high that the thin sharp lines tend to be problematic during downconversion.

I'd love to hear the latest round of experiences on this.



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Chris Babbitt
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 1, 2011 at 9:33:13 pm

Actually, Doug shoots in 1080p and then edits in a DV-NTSC timeline. Yes, that's DV. I also cannot understand why the Vortex DVD looks so good.



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 1, 2011 at 9:41:19 pm

For DVDs I'd believe DV would still hold up. I can't say why one would go that route (DV) when there are much better standard def codecs just as easy to edit with.



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Steve Connor
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 1, 2011 at 10:19:33 pm

I would thoroughly recommend BitVice for encoding

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Noah Kadner
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 2, 2011 at 6:32:59 am

The secret is not encoding to MPEG2 and downconverting HD>SD simultaneously. Try exporting an HD timeline to SD 16:9 ProRes first. Then use that as a source for your MPEG-2 file. Will look a whole lot better.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 2, 2011 at 12:10:34 pm

Don't agree, Steve Connor has it right - BITVICE, I think that their downscale is the best in their current versions and also the judicious use of Purifier (in with BitVice now) also helps with the picture quality.

Unless you can do a downscale with some good hardware I think BitVice is the way to go. I now get great DVD's from my EX 1, shot 1920 x 1080i 25 (PAL) edited in ProRes HQ 422 in Media 100, encoded and downscaled in BitVice, format in Studio Pro, burnt in Toast 10. Even better BD's, encoded and burnt in Toast 10.

Michael Slowe


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jim stamos
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 2, 2011 at 4:57:34 pm

michael will this software work with pcs or just macs?


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 2, 2011 at 5:05:40 pm

http://www.innobits.com/bitvice.html



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 2, 2011 at 5:58:32 pm

alister chapman, who has a blog specific to XDCAM and XDCAM EX has an interesting explanation on downconverting HD to SD.

His key points are:
• HD cams have much less sharping than SD which is very reliant on sharpening. Without adjustment HD to SD downconverts will look soft.
• HD to SD downconverts result in aliasing as well as flicker/buzz when the camera moves. This is the result of representing too much detail in too few pixels.

To alleviate the issues he suggests:
Adding about 4 pixels of blur before downconverting to alleviate the aliasing.
Add sharpening or detail correction after the downconvert.

My own thought is that good encoding software will take this into account when coming from HD source to SD DVD (MPEG2) encoding.

For his more detailed explanation here's his blog posts on this
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/03/getting-good-sd-from-an-hd-camera/
and this specific to EX downconversion and aliasing with good picture examples.
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2009/11/getting-sd-from-hd-and-the-problems-of-ov...



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Bob Cole
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 10, 2011 at 2:21:33 am

[Craig Seeman] "My own thought is that good encoding software will take this into account when coming from HD source to SD DVD (MPEG2) encoding."

good encoding software, such as...?

That is very appealing, especially compared to the various steps in Craig's post summarizing Alister Chapman's advice.

I already have several choices for encoding software (Compressor, Digital Rapids, ProCoder). Does any current software, including BitVice, have a significant edge in the category of HD-to-(SD)DVD encoding?

I've definitely seen the problem of creating DVDs from HD sources. Very frustrating. Thanks.

Bob C.


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 2, 2011 at 9:02:44 pm

Jim, I'm afraid to say that it may be confined to Macs, but have a look at the Innobits site as has been suggested.

Michael Slowe


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Bob Cole
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 10, 2011 at 2:25:36 am

[Noah Kadner] " Try exporting an HD timeline to SD 16:9 ProRes first."

Noah, I'd be curious as to what you think about Chapman's advice regarding the FCP Flicker filter, and 4-pixel blurring, during this HD-SD downconversion prior to MPEG encoding.

Does the advice here about DVD creation also apply to creating much smaller files (e.g. 320x180) for the web?

Bob C


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Dave Morrison
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:40:27 am

I don't want to make work for somebody else, but it would fantastic if one of our pro members here could do a proper "head to head" comparison of compression softwares. Use clips of the usual problem footage and post some frame blowups. This would be SO helpful.


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1R down conversion to DVD SD
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:46:19 am

Actually a KEY comparison would be to show moving video played on a CRT and HDTV. Seeing frame grabs from a computer monitor probably wont tell enough.



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