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Warming Card White Balance

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Robert Mosner
Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 4:35:12 pm

I use the exposedisc to white balance my camera, works great. In two weeks I'm going to shoot a wedding outside. I would like to get warmer skin tones. I read the EX1R has a white balance offsets when using Picture Profiles. Any suggestions as to how much I would offset the white balance to get warmer tones. I know warming cards are avaliable, but after spending a small fortune on the camera and SxS cards I can't justify spending $70 on a warming card. I would play around with the setting myself but time is very limited before the wedding.

Thanks



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Don Greening
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 7:28:55 pm

[Robert Mosner] "I would like to get warmer skin tones."

The w/b preset for outside is 5600K and 3200K for incandescent lighting inside. Just do some tests shooting a live human being outside. The dead ones don't work well at all. Start lowering the kelvin numbers until you get the look you want. Use that as a new picture profile w/b preset. To warm up daylight kelvin you need to w/b with an orange card. The amount of orange will determine how 'warm' you want the shot to be.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Rick Diamond
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 7:54:55 pm

Don, I'm afraid that's incorrect. To warm up an image you need to white balance to a blue card. In the past, I've put color correction gel in front of the lens and white balanced through it. You can use Roscoe 1/8 blue (3216). With the EX, you can use a color preset and use that as a picture profile as Don mentioned. I keep a picture profile on my EX3 at 6000K. This warms an exterior image just slightly. For more warmth, increase the number.


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Don Greening
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 7:58:59 pm

Do I have it backwards? If I'm inside and using incandescent lighting and want to balance them with the outside light coming in I use blue gel. Works as expected. So If I'm outside and want to warm up the shot wouldn't I try to get the picture closer to 3200K?

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Rick Diamond
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 8:15:26 pm

To balance 3200K lights to daylight, you would blue gel the lights. That effectively brings up the color temperature of the lights closer to daylight. Now, if the camera is preset on 5600K the image should look pretty good. However, if you were to white balance using an orange card/gel you would be nulling orange out of the image, therefore creating a bluer image. Taking the exterior scenario, to warm up an image, and you were using daylight color temperature lights, like HMI or daylight Kino Flos, you could then put orange gel (CTO) in front of the lights. If you're using available light, which most likely will be the case, you would white balance through a blue gel, use a blue card or preset to a higher color temperature. This will null out some blue, therefore creating a warmer/oranger image.

Rick


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Don Greening
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 8:32:34 pm

I like this Rick guy. He's smart :) Thanks, Rick, for educating me. I guess that's why I leave the lighting to the lighting guys.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Rick Diamond
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 8:50:05 pm

Thanks Don. Anytime you need help in your neck of the woods...I love Vancouver!

Rick


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Rick Diamond
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 6, 2011 at 8:59:01 pm

Robert, the scenario mentioned above assumes that the outside color temperature is 5600K. This may not be the case. On a cloudy day, for instance, the color will be bluer, sometimes a lot bluer. The best thing to do is get an accurate white balance and adjust from there. So, if the white balance you get is, say, 6300K, set the preset slightly higher than that to achieve a warmer image. Of course, your white balance will probably change throughout the event.

Rick


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Bob Cole
Re: Warming Card White Balance -- vs. filter?
on Mar 18, 2011 at 12:37:58 am

Rick, some years ago, before we had access to sophisticated color correction in post, and had to do everything in the camera, I used a different technique for a show where we had to add warmth to faces (it was a promotional video for nursing homes). We white balanced "straight," but then shot most of the video (wherever there were people) through a coral filter. Since then, I've gone the fake-the-white-balance with 1/4 blue route, along with FCP's color tools. But I wonder whether adding a coral filter would give a different effect.

I've been struck, going through my old, now barely-used, case of filters, how far I have gone from using lens filters to create the "look" during the shoot, due to the incredible array of choices (and the ability to "undo") that we have in post now. The reason it is an issue for me is that I want to use a matte box, a polarizer, and "grads" more, and that means most of my filters are the wrong size, and I have to decide: Replace or forget about it? I don't think I'll be getting new fog filters, though I did find a funny old chromatic aberration filter that I am trying to sneak into every shoot now....

Bob C


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Don Greening
Re: Warming Card White Balance -- vs. filter?
on Mar 18, 2011 at 5:27:10 am

Good post, Bob. I think the most important on-camera filters these days are still the circular pol. filter and the grads. I think the biggest use for the polarizer is, of course, to reject reflections from glass and water, the side benefit of a bit more saturation. The grads are indispensable for shots where a percentage of the frame is the sky. You can't duplicate the first filter in post. Or fix in post the result of not using them.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Greg Ondera
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 7, 2011 at 4:35:53 am

I like those warm cards from Vortex http://www.vortexmedia.com/WC_VIDEO.html however, if I want to correctly white balance I always use a 18.5% gray card from any photo shop at $7 to get it right. If you don't want to spend the dough on warm cards, do you have a color gel book? Use a slight blue to warm up, orange to cool down--opposite colors for the opposite effect.

I'm curious why you want to warm up the subjects?

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 7, 2011 at 2:27:39 pm

Sub-zero here again today...I don't just want to warm up subjects, I also want to warm up the operator! :)

Cf


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Robert Mosner
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 8, 2011 at 1:08:50 am

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression a slight blue card would be used to offset for warming skin tones. All the warming cards I've seen are more of an slight redish color.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 8, 2011 at 3:13:33 am

[Robert Mosner] "Thanks for the info. I was under the impression a slight blue card would be used to offset for warming skin tones. All the warming cards I've seen are more of an slight redish color."
The opposite.
They are bluish.
The camera have to convert that blue in pure white adding red to the whole scene.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Michael Slowe
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 8, 2011 at 10:31:46 am

Guys, the poster who suggested setting the Kelvin manually got it right. Why mess around experimenting with different cards when, with the EX cameras you can select whatever Kelvin you want and put it in a PP for instant recall. If you have your screen (camera or monitor) adjusted correctly it is good to be able visually to set how you want your picture to look. Personally I find that I get too cold a look when white balancing tungsten with a white card and generally like to warm it a little by setting the Kelvin to maybe 3600 or 3700. It's a fast way to do it and you see what you are getting.

Michael Slowe


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 8, 2011 at 2:28:47 pm

I've had the same experience in certain situations where the camera balances too cool. I figured it may be another manifestation of that "near-infrared" situation. If the camera sees more red because of its increased red sensitivity, it may balance further in the opposite direction and give a cool picture.

I too just set it manually.

Cf


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Don Greening
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 8, 2011 at 11:51:37 pm

[Clint Fleckenstein] "I figured it may be another manifestation of that "near-infrared" situation."

Indeed. But I guess your theory (and it's a good one) would only apply to the EX1 and EX3. It looks like the OP has an EX1R so manually increasing Kelvin temps somewhere past 5600 would seem to be the most logical way to do it. BTW, it's actually referred to as 'far red' because infra-red is at the far end of the red spectrum that's not visible to the unclothed eye.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 8, 2011 at 11:58:56 pm

I should mention that dialing in Kelvin is not the same as warm card balancing. Someone who has done the testing has noted that a white balance vs dial in to a level to not look the same. It might not be mission critical but I thought I'd mention that.



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Marvin Holdman
Re: Warming Card White Balance
on Mar 15, 2011 at 9:47:26 pm

I've been using this for a while and have gotten some great results, especially in mixed light situations;

http://pixelexip.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=...

Gray Card App

When I first got it, I thought it was a bit of a novelty, but after having it and using it over the last year, I must say it's pretty cool. Takes a bit of getting used to, it doesn't work exactly like warming cards, but you can quickly and easily "trick" the camera into shifting color balance. Also great for matching two cameras.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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