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i want my XDcam Transfer back please

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Dave Johnson
i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 2:34:11 pm

First I have to specify that my question is in regards to the XDcamHD workflow, rather than EX. Has XDcam Transfer gone away completely (meaning no future development or support) and, therefore, the only choice is to use XDcam Browser?

It's very hard to believe that I'm the only one who thinks XDcam Transfer was great and XDcam Browser is an abomination. On what planet is regressing to foreground capturing considered software "development"!? That's not to mention going from an interface and workflow that were appropriately simple and intuitive to a clunky interface and overcomplicated workflow that are unrelated to the production pipeline. Being forced to run XDcam Browser, run FCP and start a new FCP sequence just to "register" footage seems as though no one considered the possibility that some folks may need to capture footage either without unnecessarily running the editing software or while editing a completely unrelated project.

Someone please tell me I just can't find the latest version of XDcam Transfer because Sony's site was apparently "developed" by the same folks who "developed" the XDcam Browser software?


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Ian Cook
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 3:33:39 pm

https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-software-model-PDZKP1.aspx

Browser is meant to be the first step in consolidating several different apps with different feature sets (not just for EX but for XDCAM Optical) We're aware of its shortcomings and are working with the developers to improve it.

Ian Cook
Sony Broadcast and Professional Company


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Dave Johnson
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 4:14:00 pm

Thanks, Ian. Sorry for the rant about your employer ... since our format switch, we've met with various issues that costs us time and money so it's just frustrating to find yet another at every turn.

To clarify, does your answer mean that XDcam Transfer is in fact going away completely (meaning no future development or support) and, therefore, the only choice is or will be to use XDcam Browser?

Thanks for the link too. Is there a for-dummies type key to the cryptic descriptions anywhere ... all dozen links are identified as version 2.12.0 and described as some flavor of "XDCAM XFER", but several also include higher version numbers (2.7.1, 2.9, etc.). We just need the latest version of XDcam Transfer (and Browser if Transfer is going away) to use with PDW-U1s that are shuttled between Macs with O/S 10.6.6 and PCs with Win 7 64-bit.


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Craig Seeman
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 4:26:39 pm

12 is higher than 7 and 9 unless something has changed in the world on numbers. I think by and large most people using XDCAM are using XDCAM Transfer over the currently woefully inadequate XDCAM Browser. My hunch is that development resources are predominantly going into getting Browser up to speed.

The concern I would have for Transfer will be Mac OS Lion compatibility coming later this year because I can't imagine Browser being feature competitive to Transfer yet by that point.



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Ian Cook
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 4:36:00 pm

Sorry-- grab the first one in the list, v 2.12

No offense taken. Transfer has been a workhorse and we're sad to see it go. There will be no further development on XDCAM Transfer, PDZ-1 or Clip Browser. They are all still running strong but eventually there will be an OS or other update that 'breaks' them, and after that we will be limited to XDCAM Browser. We hope to have more of the legacy features (background processing, standalone import et al) implemented by then.


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Dave Johnson
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 5:12:05 pm

Thanks for the clarification ... that's exactly what I wanted to know.

I hastily misread 2.7.1 as 2.70.10, rather than 2.07.01.


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Greg Ondera
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 5:17:44 pm

I can see the logic of getting all workflow features into one software offering. I hope those XDCam Transfer features will find their way into XDCam Browser. Today I have also heard that Final Cut is coming up with a big change this Spring. So maybe and hopefully FCP might have mp4 editing without having to purchase Calibrated. Although I do like the feature of fusing spanned SxS cards, since I let that camera run mostly.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/23/report_says_dramatic_ambitiou...

Now that I have the ear of someone at Sony, I do want to complain about the workflow marketing and instruction availability for XDCam from Sony. I learned my stuff early through Doug Jenson's DVD and greatly appreciate that. But looking at the panic posts on this site from so many people who are just plain lost over the subject of XDCam workflow--what a mess! I'm sure Craig can attest to holding many hands, and anyone who responds may as well copy and paste workflow recommendations from Notes, for all the same problems that arise on this site. And I can see people get into odd habits and work-arounds that aren't always thoughtful. So I recommend that Sony establish a powerful instructional workflow page for Mac Final Cut Pro users and videographers. And people need to know how to think about the workflow, not just go through the steps. It seems that Sony could even sell a few more cameras if they did so.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Brent Dunn
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 7:18:28 pm

Easy, Squeezy, Japaneezee

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite





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Craig Seeman
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 8:12:23 pm

Greg, I'm obviously sympathetic. In fact if you look at their FCP workflow it scares me about the bad habits I think it promotes. It may be the same for the other NLEs as well. Also given what happened with slow Snow Leopard compatibility I am deeply troubled about how they will handle Lion. Sorry but telling people not to update the OS doesn't fly when one may need to do it for compatibility with other apps.



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Greg Ondera
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 23, 2011 at 8:30:06 pm

Thanks! I agree completely.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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David Johnson
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 1:10:01 pm

Well said, Greg. It's good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks the XD format has been inadequately supported for real-world scenarios. Perhaps, as a technology company, Sony just isn't very good at that part and ought to consider some consult.


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Bob Tompkins
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 3:49:24 pm

I agree completely that the workflow training is inadequate. I really had to learn it myself by trial and error and with the great help of the people here and the FCP Apple discussions. I bought my EX1r's through a reputable dealer who provided no basic training either. I had this discussion with my Sony rep and he poo pooed like it wasn't a problem and pointed me towards the indecipherable Sony web site. They should acknowledge the problem and address it.



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Craig Seeman
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 4:04:52 pm

Sony's NLE workflows on their site are inadequate, at least as far as FCP is concerned and I suspect other NLEs as well.

It damages the reputation of their camera reliability for camera operators and their clients when clips are lost because people have to muddle through workflows. That has to hurt camera sales at some level. It can certainly make our clients gun shy after they've had bad experiences with someone who is still learning the workflow.

I truly hope Ian is listening and can have some impact at Sony. If they can't create proper "conservative" training material so a newbie can get up and running they should hire someone.



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Greg Ondera
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 4:18:54 pm

Right on, Craig! I just wanted to pitch Doug Jensen's DVD (I've been spelling his name wrong earlier) from Vortex Media, titled "Mastering the Sony PMW-EX3" as the source that taught me. However Sony should be shouting out the information that is within that DVD. Actually, they should contract out portions of that DVD and post it on their site and send an email out to all XDCam users to go look at the site.

Here is the URL: http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_EX3.html

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Don Greening
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 4:07:21 pm

[Bob Tompkins] "I really had to learn it myself by trial and error and with the great help of the people here and the FCP Apple discussions."

Back in December 2007 Craig and I were the early adopters of the EX1 and we had to learn not only the camera but the initial workflow practices and then report on our findings to this forum. I believe that not too long ago one learned about A/V gear not so much by reading operation manuals but by the older guy or gal that had been at the production facility a lot longer that you. Information was handed down from the old to the new during the apprenticeship process. I think Sony's way of instruction is still stuck in those times.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Greg Ondera
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 4:09:04 pm

Yes, and in the beginning, to download XDCam Transfer, Browser, and Drivers, I was referred to a Canadian Sony site in order to get those items--if I remember correctly, from Doug Jenson's DVD. What is that? I think neglect actually! That Sony didn't package a website reference or CD or something with each camera just says, "Here. You bought this. Thank you very much. Now you figure this out."

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Michael Slowe
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 24, 2011 at 6:29:51 pm

What a relief to be in such great company in not understanding the way Sony behave. Quite extraordinary,I don't envy Ian having to explain to Japan what we are all bleating about. Agreed, their cameras are ace, I wouldn't dream of using any other brand but the information provided with new codecs is pathetic.

A good start would be for Sony to provide, free of charge, a copy of Doug Jensen's fantastic Vortex Media DVD, with EVERY camera sold. I'm sure they could come to a satisfactory arrangement with Vortex. I, in fact, did get a complimentary copy with my EX 1 from my seller and very welcome it was too - It saved weeks of experimentation and trouble.

We obviously can expect problems now with Transfer, it is so nice and simple to use and links so well with my edit suite, Media 100. Why can't things be left alone? It's not always progress you know.

Michael Slowe


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David Johnson
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 25, 2011 at 12:48:30 pm

[Don Greening]
"one learned about A/V gear not so much by reading operation manuals but by the older guy or gal that had been at the production facility a lot longer that you. Information was handed down from the old to the new during the apprenticeship process. I think Sony's way of instruction is still stuck in those times."

I think Don nailed the core issue there. What the "pro" equipment manufacturers seem to have missed as they've redirected their focus to the consumer market is that, in today's production world, those old guys at the shop have either been replaced by college students who only know all the ins and outs of YouTube or they've been left alone via staff reductions and there simply aren't enough hours in the days for them to figure out alone how to apply their years of experience to this week's technology. In other words, we in the field have been forced to adapt to a new business model and the manufacturers just haven't kept up.

By the way, just so it's not left out if this issue does make its back to Sony and is addressed in a meaningful way, as my original post states, the same issues apply to the XDcamHD format, not just EX.

Also, at least as far as the XDcamHD cameras go, Sony did package discs with each camera, but as is always the case with equipment and software discs, the software and info on the discs is outdated by the time you get it so you're left with obsolete software and info or the indecipherable Sony web site. Just take a look at the download page, if you can find it ... every version of the software is listed as version "2.12" in one column, yet has the correct version number hidden in the description. And such cryptic descriptions they are ... why not just call the software "XDcam Transfer", "PDW-U1 driver", etc. instead of PZD1WXZX270UXYZ212!!??


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Richard Boghosian
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Feb 28, 2011 at 1:44:38 pm

My neighbor Doug Jensen-Vortex Media, has some added insight on this FWIW:

http://www.vortexmedia.com/XDCAM_UPDATES.html

Richard Boghosian
Bogh AV Productions

FCP 7.03 MacPro 8Gb ram Matrox MXO 2 Max


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David Johnson
Re: i want my XDcam Transfer back please
on Mar 1, 2011 at 1:30:15 am

The next time you speak to Doug, please thank him for me ... until I read his article (and similar viewpoints from others here on the COW) I was feeling a little like an old dog on a rant because I just didn't want to change with the times. Now, I just feel like an old dog with a legitimate gripe. Let's just hope it doesn't take Sony too long to release Browser v2 with fixes for all the things Doug outlined and the foreground processing issue, which is a biggie.


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